I guess no one likes VC.

[Defensewins]

Vinny basically took WR's in a bad year for WR's. The 2008 WR's class was not very good. The 2009 WR class is strong. This is one of many mistakes Vinny made in 2008.
Yet he keeps his job.
His job performance is not judged the same way others in the organization are.
We have an owner that fired a successful coach Marty Schottenheimer after only one season. Yet he keeps Vinny on for 8 years now.

[SBXVII]

Oh but you look good taking the "Best available player" at the time....I mean look at Detroit with all the first round picks and WR's. LOL.

When making apple juice and all you have is lemons you make the best of what you have....you make lemon juice. Atleast you have juice. We have fruit ....we just need to make something of them. Unfortunatly Hixon has no clue as to how to make juice.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Vinny basically took WR's in a bad year for WR's. The 2008 WR's class was not very good. The 2009 WR class is strong. This is one of many mistakes Vinny made in 2008.
Yet he keeps his job.
His job performance is not judged the same way others in the organization are.
We have an owner that fired a successful coach Marty Schottenheimer after only one season. Yet he keeps Vinny on for 8 years now.

Hopefully Vinny avoids receivers this year like the plague but if he dares to draft one with one of his first 3 picks then I'm going to call for his head (figuratively of course). I mean Vinny's going to do whatever he's going to do. I think that the BPA explanation must have been something PR came up with because this organizations top is more determined to find receivers then a junkie is to find a fix.

I can only hope that Vinny's interst in offensive line prospects last year was genuine because if it is then at least theres a willingness to strongly consider finding players along the front lines.

[redsk1]

When VC provides a good on field product I'll like him. In his 7-8 years here he has not.

He has not made good coaching hires, he has missed on players just as much as he's hit w/ players, he's not handled contracts very well, he's not handled the draft very well. He deserved to be fired after this year, but hey might as well stick w/ it one more year right.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redsk1

When VC provides a good on field product I'll like him. In his 7-8 years here he has not.

He has not made good coaching hires, he has missed on players just as much as he's hit w/ players, he's not handled contracts very well, he's not handled the draft very well. He deserved to be fired after this year, but hey might as well stick w/ it one more year right.

I think you may need to point the finger more at Snyder over the issues you brought up. Snyder has always handled the contracts and up until the Zorn hire I don't think VC had much say in the coaching hires. And the level of his input over player moves and drafts up until last year is debatable at best.

[44ever]

This is a team that went into Dallas and Philly and won. And then lost to the Rams at home and the Bengals. Vinny's fault? Come on. Gotta give "his" system a chance.

It doesn't matter how long he's been with the Skins. He didn't have control until now. This team has been in a state of transition far to long. It's time to stick with it.
(for a change)

Next year Vinny's the man!

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think you may need to point the finger more at Snyder over the issues you brought up. Snyder has always handled the contracts and up until the Zorn hire I don't think VC had much say in the coaching hires. And the level of his input over player moves and drafts up until last year is debatable at best.

You're right, it is debatable. We really don't know who made decision up until a year ago.

I tend to think that no one else is higher than VC in the FO for the last 8 years or so. Sure JG's had a fancy President title, but it was a 3 headed monster w/ JG, VC and DS. How do we make some of these mistakes w/out VC standing up saying that signing B Lloyd and giving him a new contract is a major mistake (insert A Carter, AA, TJ Duckett, you get the point)? Granted he most likely made the decision (he admitted as much), but how can this happen on his watch? How could he not have major issues w/ this? How could he in good faith be a part of such strange personel moves?

You're right in that i'm sure DS get's involved and I'm sure coaches get involved but you can't let some of these things happen.

VC has been a constant for our losing organization. Let's start over. Give him one more year w/ Zorn. If no playoffs...let's start over.

[MTK]

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

[WaldSkins]

I just wish we had our second round pick

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

We're not going to see any changes in the assistant coaches on staff either.

Cerrato said that any changes to the assistant coaches is "totally up to Jim (Zorn)." Zorn responding by saying no one is going anywhere.

So before anyone blasts VC for not firing Stan Hixon or Danny Smith, remember it's Zorn's call. However, VC could always trump Zorn and get rid of whoever he wants.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

What adjustment could he have possibly made? They haven't yet established a basic foundation. This offseason will give them the time they need to evaluate their talent and make the proper adjustments. Let's not forget this was Zorns rookie year in what must have seemed like a blur to him. All this team needs is to settle in.

Also at 6-2 I don't think they were thinking about plan B

Personally I'm very pleased with Zorn and Co. so far

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

I want Vinny outta here as much as the next guy, but I think youre being a little harsh there:

• Vinny wisely chose not to promote Gregg Williams to HC - that would have been a disaster - The guy couldnt even keep the job as DC in Jacksonville.
• Vinny stressed continuity, which was much needed given the foundation Gibbs laid here.
• Saunders offense was doo-doo. Bringing in Zorn to be the OC/QB coach was a smart move, given Zorns success record developing QBs
• Promoting Zorn to HC was a prudent move at the time, considering Jim Fassel and Mooch were the only other men who wanted the job.
• We entered the draft with our starters set. The goal in the draft was never to draft rookie starters... it was to draft depth guys who could grow into starting roles in years 2 and beyond. If Thomas and Rinehart are starting in 2009, and Davis and Kelly are contributing more, then Vinny will have succeeded there.
• Trading for Jason Taylor - who was coming off a 16sack season - was a brilliant move - praised by EVERYONE in the media at the time. Getting him for a 2nd and 6th rounder was a steal, especially since Taylor vowed to play 2 more years minimum. No one could have guessed a guy who hadnt missed a start in over a decade would suddenly suffer a slew of injury problems.
• We wisely remained quiet in free agency last year. There really wasnt anyone out there worth breaking the bank for.
• We had every reason to expect a better performance from our offensive line than we got. Vinny can be forgiven for not doing more to address that in the draft. Given how quickly the QB is supposed to throw the ball in the WCO, our OL should have done a much better job than it did.
• By all appearances, our plan was to draft atleast 1 Defensive linemen in the 2nd round. Unfortunately for us, Philly and Miami picked guys we were likely targeting right before we made our selections. Sometimes, thats just how things play out.

Vinnys first offseason cannot be judged in one year. Like head coaches and draft picks, GMs need atleast 2-3 years to accurately evaluate. I'm not saying danny shouldnt be seeing what he can do to get guys like Holmgren, Shanahan, Cowher, or Pioli, because they would clearly be upgrades over what we have now, but I also wouldnt throw in the towel on Cerrato for anything less than Pioli or Cowher running the FO.

[REDSKIN1]

I think that Danny should seriously take a look at hiring Carl Peterson to replace Vinny. He dosen't have to fire Vinny, just move him to another position.

[dmek25]

if we draft the best player available, instead of one for need, ill puke. good teams have that luxury. we are not a good team