Gun Control Thread- Should we?

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I've never understood the mindset that says if more people carried concealed weapons then this would have never happened.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't so.

Originally Posted by 12thMan

That's a huge hypothetical. Secondly, the average citizen has no desire to carry a gun on their person. In fact, most probably have a general discomfort of guns.

Yes, due to ignorance most people DO have a discomfort around guns. It wouldn't be mandatory to carry a gun, but it should be a choice.

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Yes, these things will happen. People will break the law and find a way to incite fear and violence no matter what laws are on the books. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take a closer look at current laws and improve them.

We already have enough laws n the books, lets have them enforced.

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Why on earth would someone in suburbia need military grade assault weapons? At a minimum we should reinstate the AWB signed under Bill Clinton in the 90s.

Because that's their right. Why should people be allowed to own and operate a vehicle capable of exceeding the speed limit by 3X?

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm not some knee-jerk pro gun control liberal that wants to ban all guns. Statistics prove that most gun owners are responsible and law abiding. But the laws that govern, say, Montana or the Dakotas, for instance, should be different than those that govern our urban communities.

People should have the right to buy and use what they choose. Enforce the laws that we already have.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't so.

Again with the smarmy BS. Nice. If you contest the alternative, prove it with verifiable data and not hypotheticals. If you are not contesting the alternative and just stating an obvious truism - yeah for your grasp of the obvious.

Just b/c you or Monkeydad say it is so doesn't make it true. It's an unprovable hypothetical based on many assumptions going you're way.

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

... People should have the right to buy and use what they choose. Enforce the laws that we already have.

Other than your usual smugness, I agree with most of your post. Enforce the laws on the books with the caveatthat local communities ought to have some ability to regulate for their locality and concerns of their group. Again, as with all things in civil society, it is a balancing of individual v. group rights.

[JoeRedskin]

Pretty much said all that I have to say on the topic here: http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...n-control.html

Mostly, I am in agreement with 12th.

What a concept ... local laws/regulations for local situations.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Pretty much said all that I have to say on the topic here: http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...n-control.html

Mostly, I am in agreement with 12th.

What a concept ... local laws/regulations for local situations.

Damn you JR for making me search for your post...lol


For those of you that are lazy.

http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-w...tml#post328702

[12thMan]

Monkeydad, can we drop the anti 2nd Amendment hyperbole? Not a single person in any thread that I've participated in has advocated against the 2nd Amendment.

You ask why do liberals jump to the assault weapons argument. Well that's because in all of the most recent mass murders, the perpetrator used an assault weapon. That's why.

[12thMan]

It's so weird how people hear what they want to hear when they're passionate about an issue. I clearly stated most gun owners are law abiding and responsible. Yet I'm still considered a knee jerk, anti 2nd Amendment liberal.

I will say this, I'm concerned about who foots the bill for mental health screenings. This is where I'm probably more right leaning or libertarian in my thinking.

*Are the screenings now part of the cost of doing business for gun store owners?
*Do these same rules apply to sporting goods store owners that happens to sells guns?
*Who deems you mentally competent? The government? Well that's another can of worms.
*If a gun purchaser aces the mental screening, goes out and blows up the town, who's legally culpable? The gov't or the gun store owner? See where this is going?

I just have concerns about mental healthcare screenings as a way to weed out the loons. The last few systematically planned their shootings with a high degree of planning and had some college. I'm skeptical, though not completely opposed to the idea.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's so weird how people hear what they want to hear when they're passionate about an issue. I clearly stated most gun owners are law abiding and responsible. Yet I'm still considered a knee jerk, anti 2nd Amendment liberal.

I will say this, I'm concerned about who foots the bill for mental health screenings. This is where I'm probably more right leaning or libertarian in my thinking.

*Are the screenings now part of the cost of doing business for gun store owners?
*Do these same rules apply to sporting goods store owners that happens to sells guns?
*Who deems you mentally competent? The government? Well that's another can of worms.
*If a gun purchaser aces the mental screening, goes out and blows up the town, who's legally culpable? The gov't or the gun store owner? See where this is going?

I just have concerns about mental healthcare screenings as a way to weed out the loons. The last few systematically planned their shootings with a high degree of planning and had some college. I'm skeptical, though not completely opposed to the idea.

No one does a mental check. With that said the VT shooter should have been on the list of people who cannot buy a gun. Some how his name was never given to the state and so he was able to purchase his guns.Either way I can think of plenty of ways to kill people without a gun if that's what I wanted to do.

[firstdown]

You don't think you would have been better off with one of those friends with a gun defending people or would you rather they just lay on top of you hoping the shooter passes by. I'll take the friend with the gun.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You don't think you would have been better off with one of those friends with a gun defending people or would you rather they just lay on top of you hoping the shooter passes by. I'll take the friend with the gun.

Doesn't matter remember it is a sucker punch no way to defend.

[Chico23231]

I just hate the thought that I have to carry a gun in our society to feel protected. Is that what the forefathers wanted? A society so violent and crazy we need to carry firearms everywhere?

[MTK]

I like how some think the answer to gun control is more guns.

We sure are a gun f'ing crazy society.

[SmootSmack]

Like mredskins says, everyone thinks they'd be Rambo or some shit like that in such a situation.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Like mredskins says, everyone thinks they'd be Rambo or some shit like that in such a situation.

Or capable. Whatever......

[Daseal]

As mentioned previously, we've had this discussion before. Personally, I think there should be a form of gun control. I think the idea of localized gun control makes sense. I see no need for assault rifles to be legal and little need for hand guns to be legal. I enjoy shooting guns. I'll go out and shoot trap or go to the range from time to time. I enjoy it as an activity for entertainment. However, these are tools for killing other humans plain and simple.

To be honest, my real issue with it is the ease at which someone can purchase a firearm. While assault rifles and handguns are more strict. At 17 me and 4 friends were able to buy a rifle, at walmart, with ammo within 20 minutes. Oh yeah.. we were all drunk. To me, there's an issue with the ease at which I purchased a firearm. Many of those things were not legal and the oversight was not there to keep it from happening.

Yes, people will find ways to get guns. However it puts them in precarious situations, will become much more expensive, and difficult to obtain for those not in tune with the criminal element. To me, fewer guns is better than more guns. Just because someone goes through a couple hour class about gun ownership doesn't give them the training, understanding, or ability to operate the gun in a stressful situation. I have two friends with conceal carry and it makes me nervous. They hear a loud noise and they start to reach down. They're just waiting to be a hero.

For every study one side shows the other side can counter. You can twist and contort all sorts of numbers and make them work to your advantage. Every article I see on it is slanted to their way. Imagine that, gunowners.org has numbers to say how much safer we are because of gun ownership. Oh look! hippiesagainstguns.org have numbers that counter those numbers. All I know is that a majority of violent crimes are commited with firearms. Would that change with a ban, probably not. Would the number drop? Hopefully.

Finally, in regards to the tragic situation in Colorado. Saying someone being locked and loaded is going to save the day is a hard pill to swallow. No required combat training, dark theatre, tear gas, chaos, etc. Hell, I doubt many military folks have training on a situation like that. I heard the same thing about the guy in the tower with a sniper rifle -- somehow someone with a handgun would have stopped him! Doubtful.

What happens if one of these concealed carry guys kills someone while trying to kill the shooter? To me, that is cold blooded murder and they should go to jail for life or have the death penalty. In situations, such as this one, there is absolute chaos. People running everywhere. It's not as if there's a clear path. Would it be possible for that person to stop the threat? Maybe. Personally, I'd rather make it more difficult for psychos to get out there. Will it still happen? Of course. Would it limit these occurrences? I believe so.

[skinsguy]

I'm not sure why you guys are wasting time arguing about gun control and gun laws in general. Since when do the criminals obey laws?