New Poster Making People Mad

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

yeah the O-Line obviously struggled. but we were up against a rested Umenyiora and Strahan, we also knew that coming in. when a part of the team is struggling, another has to come up and make some PLAYS, even if they are risky. Brunell clearly can't do that anymore, and honestly didn't even try.

if Brunell doesn't try, that means Moss, Lloyd, Randle El, and Cooley can't either. result: LOSS

- EDIT: ok, he TRIED to escape the sacks (like he used to be able to do) but he didn't try enough passes downfield regardless of risk towards the end of the game.

Do you really want him throwing the ball up for grabs? Because that's what it sounds like you're suggesting. If only beating a D was that easy and only required the QB to 'try' throwing deep.

If it's not there he rarely will force the issue, that's just how he plays the game. If the game comes down to needing Brunell to force throws, then it's really not the kind of game we're likely to win, and it's asking him to be something he's not.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I guess you are right, after all he is still the starter and there are no plans to replace him this year anyway.

Really he is not the problem here. Everybody wanted Brunell's head after the first two games, then after the next two games it was all about breaking Gannon's record for consecutive completions in a game, then putting up 36 points on a number three defense. Then all of a sudden we get into another divisional game against the team that, by the way won our division last year, a team that has a pretty good defense themselves, in their house, after a bye week, with their backs against the wall, and we lose...Aaaah it's Brunell, and he sucks, blah, blah, blah.

It was not Brunell's fault we lost. It was the offensive line's inconsistencies, the secondary's poor coverage at times, the defensive line's lack of pressure on Eli, the missed field goals, suspect play calling at times. As a TEAM they need to get better, and as the team gets better so does Brunell.

It's too easy to play the QB blame game and unfortunately alot of people fall for it.

[Daseal]

Matty, a common misconception when people ask for a QB to be pulled is that it's because of the previous game. Brunell has been suspect going on 3 seasons now. He plays well in stretches (last season he played solid for a decent part of the season.) The first year was abysmal, and this year is heading that way without the abiration known as the Jags game.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

That is a very good point, Schneed! In fact, in may be one of the best posts I've read since the season started. The offense can't rely on the defense to keep them in the game as it stands now. Saunders is going to have to open it up a little bit and take some chances. We have extremely talented playmakers and it needs to be a case of "you versus me, let's see who's better."

Thank you for the compliment.

But I slightly disagree with your conclusions. Brunell always has been very good at avoiding costly mistakes. He had only 10 INTs last year as evidence.

Brunell loves to throw the ball away rather than force bad passes. He'd rather play the field position game and punt than take a chance and maybe get intercepted. If your defense plays like swiss cheese, then throwing the ball away and punting can get you into trouble because the opposing offense can just march the field and put up points. Then again, if you throw an INT, the opposing offense has a short field and has an even greater chance of putting up points.

How Brunell plays needs to depend upon the situation. If we're behind by 10 points with 7 minutes to play, I don't want to see him dumping the ball off, ever. But if we're up by 3 points, the last thing I want him doing is forcing a ball into tight coverage, risking an INT.

All this talk about swiss cheese defense should not be an indictment of Brunell's conservative style of play. It should be an indictment of our swiss cheese defense. We shouldn't expect Brunell to be any more than he is. He is a game manager, a QB with average talents and way-above-average decision making. You want to win a Super Bowl with him, don't expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Expect him to play like Trent Dilfer, and expect your defense to play like the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

[illdefined]

I don't expect Brunell to suddenly get younger legs, or become Peyton Manning. all i can ask of Brunell right now is too look over the MIDDLE somemore, especially when a game is on the line. don't you all agree?

even the most grizzled veterans have bad habits: Beldsoe, waits too long. Favre, forces it. etc. etc. Brunell is no different, and was clearly illustrated to be his penchant for throwing to the sidelines (in the valid attempt to avoid INTs). and this is throughout his career, not just since becoming a Skin.

well, it's made him easy to gameplan against, especially since the commonplace Cover-2 is tailormade for limiting outside passes to a tiny intermediate window (see Jax).

i know we don't have a possession receiver, and while Cooley kind of fits that role, its also only for intermediate throws. Brunell DOESN'T LIKE to throw deep except near the sidelines. Moss blowing past the MIDDLE of the Quarter defense of Dallas was SO unexpected, that they didn't CHANGE THE COVERAGE and allowed a 2nd TD!

is it wrong to ask for Brunell try more risky throws (incl. over the middle)when the game is on the line?

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Do you really want him throwing the ball up for grabs? Because that's what it sounds like you're suggesting. If only beating a D was that easy and only required the QB to 'try' throwing deep.

If it's not there he rarely will force the issue, that's just how he plays the game. If the game comes down to needing Brunell to force throws, then it's really not the kind of game we're likely to win, and it's asking him to be something he's not.

56 min. into a game we're losing? absolutely.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It's too easy to play the QB blame game and unfortunately alot of people fall for it.

When the quarterback is the most visibly deficient skill position player on the field, he deserves most of the criticism for being unable to execute and get it to the playmakers. Mark Brunell has an elite running back, a pro bowl wide receiver, a potentially pro bowl tight end, and probably the best #3 receiver in the league at his disposal. That's more than Peyton Manning, Brady, McNabb, and just about every other quarterback in the league could hope to have.

But let's just keep making excuses. It's everyone but Brunell...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

But let's just keep making excuses. It's everyone but Brunell...

I've never said that. Brunell did not play well last week... but who did?

If you can tell me with a straight face that Brunell was the only problem last week fine, I guess there's nothing left to talk about.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Matty, a common misconception when people ask for a QB to be pulled is that it's because of the previous game. Brunell has been suspect going on 3 seasons now. He plays well in stretches (last season he played solid for a decent part of the season.) The first year was abysmal, and this year is heading that way without the abiration known as the Jags game.

In 2005 Brunell was 14th in total yards, 13th in passer rating, 9th in total touchdowns, 11th in interceptions thrown

In 2004 Brunell only played nine games so you can't really assess his play fairly being thrown to the wolves in a new offense (for him) in the middle of the season.

Since 1995 he's had a passer rating every year between 82-92.

Everybody complains that all he does is dink and dunk, but if you compare his yards per pass attempt since he's been in the league (6.95) to peyton manning since he's been in the league (7.65), I guess Manning needs to go down the field more often and take chances too.

Let's get off the Brunell bashing...PLEASE!!!

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

Since 1995 he's had a passer rating every year between 82-92.

Everybody complains that all he does is dink and dunk, but if you compare his yards per pass attempt since he's been in the league (6.95) to peyton manning since he's been in the league (7.65), I guess Manning needs to go down the field more often and take chances too.

ancient stats don't apply here, and how many of those passing yards here were dinks and dunks turned into big gains by Moss and Cooley?

come on, this is the QB position we're talking about. when a team struggles, it's PART OF THE JOB to try and singlehandedly become the team's savior. it may not be fair to expect it, but its fair to wish for it.

[MTK]

Funny, whenever he plays well as he did against Houston and the Jags, that gets conveniently brushed aside.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

and how many of those passing yards here were dinks and dunks turned into big gains by Moss and Cooley?

In that case we should be discrediting Joe Montana and Steve Young. All they did was dink and dunk and let Rice and company do all the work.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If you can tell me with a straight face that Brunell was the only problem last week fine, I guess there's nothing left to talk about.

As I've said, last week was a team effort, but Brunell's play is magnified because he's the quarterback. And my feelings towards Brunell is far more than a knee jerk reaction to last week. He's been on the lower side of inconsistent since the end of last season. And the fact that he played well against a stingy Jacksonville defense pisses me off even more, because it almost seems like he can physically get it done, but chooses not to if it's too risky.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Expect him to play like Trent Dilfer, and expect your defense to play like the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

What happens when you're defense can't play like the 2000 Ravens? Something has to be done. Both the offense and the defense need to adapt to each other. I definitely don't want Brunell to turn into a chariot-riding, pigskin-slinging offensive maniac but he will have to realize that during a game if the defense is not performing well then the offense will have to re-evaluate their risk tolerance. Sometimes, in few and far between situations, you have to say "F*CK IT! WE'RE SCORING NOW!" Like the Greatest Game Since 1991 last year when he hurled the ball deep to Moss twice in the final 5 minutes. If he hadn't taken the high-risk chance then obviously the game would have been over with happier Cowboy fans.

[illdefined]

If i remember correctly, a lot of people still weren't happy with Brunell's dink/dunking in the Texans win. and the Jacksonville game was also notable because of it's YAC, not its bombs.

it's that one dimension lacking in Brunell's game that is constant and makes it easier for a team like the Giants, with it's terrible secondary, to gameplan for and stop.

using the entire recieving corps, and the WHOLE field, would greatly improve every aspect of this offense.

maybe the root cause for this is Brunell doesn't feel confident in his arm to safely overthrow/lead these routes without big risk of interception.