How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

The team needs to play to it's individual strengths also. If Thomas is nothing but a run straight down the field type of player then they need to utilize that. Send him on speed routes. I know Moss is currently doing that but teams will be baffled as to double teaming Moss and covering Thomas. Then use either Randel El or Kelly on other routes.

If it takes 2-3 yrs for a WR to develope and come into his own, which people are saying of two possible 1st rounders in Kelly and Thomas, then why didn't we keep some of the other WR's we had last yr to develope them? Heck I went on NFL.com and checked the WR's and I can only find McMullen who is available.

Good points sir... I think it's especially true of Devin cuz his athletic ability is off the charts but we need to find a way to get the ball in his hands. Getting both guys a ton of reps in pre-season is key too, but even then I think Zorn will have to be a little creative to get Devin the ball. It will be worth it. Also wrt Devin if he's not going to start at WR this year (and I doubt he will) he should be strongly, strongly considered for KR/PR IMO. Again we have to find a way to exploit his physical gifts.

I think Kelly is a simpler case. If his knee(s) hold up he will be productive for us this year no question about it.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The press doesnt own the redskins - daniel snyder does. The only person Cerrato and Zorn really need to please is him.

Perhaps. But, I think Vinny should be held accountable for these picks. Those three 2nd rounders represent the best accumulation of picks the Skins have had or will likely have for some time. Those picks could have made a huge difference. If he is seen to have ****ed the dog at that critical moment, he is going out.

If we are supppossed to sit around for the entire lengths of these contracts making excuses and saying, "This week will be the week...blah, blah, blah..." then count me out. I expect each to catch at least 40 passes THIS SEASON.

You can't play in the man's game. You can't catch them. Go home and tell your wife your troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life. Get open and catch passes for First Downs and Touchdowns. You hear me you ****ing faggots. A, B, C. Always Be Catching. Always Be Catching.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Perhaps. But, I think Vinny should be held accountable for these picks. Those three 2nd rounders represent the best accumulation of picks the Skins have had or will likely have for some time. Those picks could have made a huge difference. If he is seen to have ****ed the dog at that critical moment, he is going out.

If we are supppossed to sit around for the entire lengths of these contracts making excuses and saying, "This week will be the week...blah, blah, blah..." then count me out. I expect each to catch at least 40 passes THIS SEASON.

You can't play in the man's game. You can't catch them. Go home and tell your wife your troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life. Get open and catch passes for First Downs and Touchdowns. You hear me you ****ing faggots. A, B, C. Always Be Catching. Always Be Catching.

40 catches each huh? And how many for Moss, Randle El, and Cooley?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Perhaps. But, I think Vinny should be held accountable for these picks. Those three 2nd rounders represent the best accumulation of picks the Skins have had or will likely have for some time. Those picks could have made a huge difference. If he is seen to have ****ed the dog at that critical moment, he is going out.

If we are supppossed to sit around for the entire lengths of these contracts making excuses and saying, "This week will be the week...blah, blah, blah..." then count me out. I expect each to catch at least 40 passes THIS SEASON.

You can't play in the man's game. You can't catch them. Go home and tell your wife your troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life. Get open and catch passes for First Downs and Touchdowns. You hear me you ****ing faggots. A, B, C. Always Be Catching. Always Be Catching.

Nice Glengarry Glen Ross reference. Alec Baldwin is still the man.

[Nflnick11]

4 games, and they both better have atleast one TD catch by then

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

calm down with the language

40 catches each huh? And how many for Moss, Randle El, and Cooley?

You worried they can't catch 40 passes? Have I set the bar too high? Are you worried they can't get on the field ahead of Moss and Randle-El? Then why did we draft them? Hell they can't get on the field ahead of Thrash.

And sorry about the language I was paraphrasing a character from a film. I figured that if Alec Baldwin can say it, it must be okay.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

You worried they can't catch 40 passes? Have I set the bar too high? Are you worried they can't get on the field ahead of Moss and Randle-El? Then why did we draft them? Hell they can't get on the field ahead of Thrash.

And sorry about the language I was paraphrasing a character from a film. I figured that if Alec Baldwin can say it, it must be okay.

I don't know the actual numbers but how often do the #3 and #4 receivers each get 40 catches. (I'm working under the assumption that Moss and Cooley are essentially 1 and 2)

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know the actual numbers but how often do the #3 and #4 receivers each get 40 catches. (I'm working under the assumption that Moss and Cooley are essentially 1 and 2)

This is what I don't get. Why did we spend two high draft picks on #3 and #4 receivers? We already had #3 and #4 receivers. With their size and athleticism, one of them should be the #1 receiver. When they chosen, I don't remember anyone saying, "Good. We finally have those #3 and #4 receivers, we've been wanting". No. The talk was all about how Santana would handle being demoted.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know the actual numbers but how often do the #3 and #4 receivers each get 40 catches. (I'm working under the assumption that Moss and Cooley are essentially 1 and 2)

From his comments i think the point is kelly and thomas should be passing thrash and randel in the depth chart. So by seasons end if these guys arent the 2nd and 3rd option something is wrong. Them maturing and campbell being in the second year of the same offense we can expect those numbers.

[That Guy]

moss 60 cooley 80 - that's only 140 between them. if el gets 60 and kelley/thomas get 40 each, that's 280 completions... hopefully one or both displace el though, cause he's not a good #2.

if one moves to #2 then it should be easy to do, since el will have to give up catches from the above example. we'll see though.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know the actual numbers but how often do the #3 and #4 receivers each get 40 catches. (I'm working under the assumption that Moss and Cooley are essentially 1 and 2)

So where would Randle El fit in? I don't think anyone should expect Moss, Cooley, Thomas, Kelly, and Randle El to all be real contributors. Moss and Cooley of course. The other three? We shall see. Don't forget Zorn has repeatedly said he really wants to get Fred Davis involved too.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So where would Randle El fit in? I don't think anyone should expect Moss, Cooley, Thomas, Kelly, and Randle El to all be real contributors. Moss and Cooley of course. The other three? We shall see. Don't forget Zorn has repeatedly said he really wants to get Fred Davis involved too.

Thats kind of the point, Randel El will no longer be used if the young guys improve. If only Moss could return all the punts too...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So where would Randle El fit in? I don't think anyone should expect Moss, Cooley, Thomas, Kelly, and Randle El to all be real contributors. Moss and Cooley of course. The other three? We shall see. Don't forget Zorn has repeatedly said he really wants to get Fred Davis involved too.

Does anyone else realize that Randle-El set a career high in receptions and TD last year? We're going to see a drop in his production but he's not going to fall to 20 catches while Thomas, Kelly and Davis spring to 40 catches each.

I know that's not what you were saying but since you brought up ARE I thought this was an appropriate spot to point that out.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

It's kind of REDECULES to even discuss at this point, but you've got to give them their rookie contract duration. I posted something similar to this right after the end of the season but would you advocate cutting players that posted 1st season stats that were as follows?

10 catches, 154 yards, 0 TD
29 catches, 446 yards, 3 TD
20 catches, 309 yards, 2 TD
3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD
35 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD
2 catches, 40 yards, 0 TD
14 catches, 186 yards, 0 TD
3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD

If so, then you just released Steve Smith, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Santana Moss, Derrick Mason and Donald Driver. That would be more than 1/3 of the top 15 WR in the league (statistically) from last year and 8 of the top 20. Even Vinny ain't that dumb.

Excellent job with these stats.

To answer the question, "To cut or not to cut," one must ask "why?" regarding production. If Kelly and Thomas are still developing, then you need to keep 'em until after 2010 at least. Many wide receivers don't really develop until their 3rd year, including folks on the list above. It would be a waste not to give them that kind of patience.

Then again, if the problem is with knees that just don't seem to get better - like possibly Kelly - then that is a problem which patience won't fix. The good news here was reported earlier in this thread - that Kelly's knees, for now, are holding up.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Thats kind of the point, Randel El will no longer be used if the young guys improve. If only Moss could return all the punts too...

Keep in mind that Randle El restructured his contract this past offseason along with Andre Carter.

He got a new signing bonus and a longer contract to lessen his number against the cap. That means management believes he'll be used in this offense for the next two or three years and not just for punts.