On Blache

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Oh really?? Sigh... Tripp I just think you can never admit when you're wrong. You try and over analyze everything with stats, and while sometimes you bring up solid points, on this subject you're just flat out wrong. Blache is not the main reason we are where we are. It's the offense that scores 10 points a game. If you can't see that then so be it. But as I said, there are experts that played in the NFL that follow this team who are basically saying the same thing.

There have been many instances where the offense goes three and out. It happened last week against the freaking Bengals. No first downs til midway through the 2nd q. Inexcuseable! I remember watching Pitts when Tomlin on side kicks it to start the game off. Why? Cause he knows his defense has his back. We got the ball a few times deep in Pittsburgh territory and could not get first downs. Or the first game of the year.....no first downs til the end of the half. I could go on and on.

Look, I'm not saying our defense is perfect. We need to create turnovers and maybe doing more exotic blitz packages will help. But to be honest, I've seen numerous times where our guys were in positions to get turnovers yet we simply don't make the play. Rogers could've changed the Pitts. game around if he simply catches the ball. How many INTS did we drop last week? Or in first game of the year? To me that's more frustating than not trying to hide blitzes. If our guys could just catch the damn ball.

I think it's obvious that both sides of the ball have their own issues to correct. And both have declined in the past nine games. I think the offense has declined further, because the offense had further to decline than the defense did.

I'm sorry for not admiting when I'm wrong after clearly proving myself right. You're probably looking at me as some arrogant prick right now. I'm okay with that.

But your claim that I'm wrong is that I'm OVERanalyzing stuff. You aren't even reading what I have to write. And that's why you aren't learning anything here.

We are simply not great at preventing points. That's not overanalyzing things at all. You cannot have read my post and still deny this. Eleven teams are better at keeping teams out of the end zone than we are. That is the very most basic measure of defense. Our offense isn't scoring enough touchdowns, given. But that's not the whole story, and if you think it is, then I probably had more respect for you as a poster than I should have.

If PPG is enough for you to feel like you know that we don't have an issue at preventing points, then whatever. Bottom line is that we are a 7-7 defense, and we need to get better to be a force in the playoffs next year. I think you know this.

Realize that:

• You said that the offense goes three and out way too much (I assume compared to an average team).
• You were wrong when you said this.
• I told you that you were wrong.
• I am not to blame for you being wrong, like you seem to believe I am. It is not my fault you did not know that our offense converts a 1st and 10 into another 1st and 10 two thirds of the time.
• The fact that you refuse to read anything I write doesn't make your statement any less wrong.
• I will not be apologizing for correcting you, simply because you don't want to admit that you were wrong.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Look, we obviously just have different opinions and will never convince the other that our way of thinking is better. But, EVERY argument you make is not over-analyzed, it's taking parts of this and that and peicing it together to support your argument... not a solid foundation and everytime you respond, I am pretty sure it gets toppled back down (just for you to find more junk to pile up again.

I'm sorry my last post went totally to waste for you.

I agree with you that we'll just have to agree to disagree. As I mentioned before, I don't know why you look at the Pittsburgh, Dallas, New York, and Cincinnati games and see a great pass defense. I don't.

I apologize for saying you don't understand stats. You clearly do. I don't apologize for letting you know that your 100% wrong when you say PPG is the only stat that matters. You clearly are.

At the end of the day, as long as you are enjoying the product on the field more than I am, you'll always be somewhat right. I'm moderately disappointed by our 7-7 pass defense. I hope that doesn't offend you. Good day.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Obviously you've got a great handle on things and do a great job breaking down the games. I think in the bolded portion above you identify the central issue quite succinctly. I don't have the numbers (and can't find them) but maybe you can marshal them for me. My sense is that the Redskins actually blitz quite often (I'd bet they are up among the league leaders) but their blitzes are largely vanilla. They don't run many zone dogs, few complex stunts, and when they have DBs coming they often clue. So they are bringing extra people, but not really putting pressure on the opposing OLine and QB (the way other teams do to the Redskins). The people that get pressured are actually the DBs on the back end who get manned up while the QB faces minimal pressure because the defense rarely creates quick pressure despite bringing extra people.

So my question is, how often do the Redskins bring extra pressure (you break this down every week, do you have the cumulative stats?). Do you have any idea how the number of Redskins blitzes stacks up to other teams in the league? Is Blache bringing extra people in order to stop the run or are they actually trying to pressure the passer (i.e. are the bringing people on 1st and 2nd down in running situations or are they mostly in obvious passing downs and distances?)

We heard during the summer that Blache preferred to run a simplified defense. Few exotic blitzes, focus on fundamentals, stop the run, defend the pass on the back end with DBs. Instead, what we have gotten is a team that blitzes often (albeit with few exotic blitzes), still generates little pressure, and doesn't do a very good job of getting off the field in key third downs. I'm reminded of a passage that Gregg Easterbrook had from earlier in the season after the Skins managed to lose to the Rams:

"Stop Me Before I Blitz Again! No. 1: Last week, TMQ praised new Redskins defensive coordinator Greg Blache for "using conservative, responsibility-oriented schemes with hardly any of the blitzing or exotic fronts that bobbleheads in the booth always extol." With Washington leading St. Louis 17-16, Les Mouflons faced third-and-13 on their 41 with 1:13 remaining. To that point in the game, St. Louis had just 158 yards of total offense. If Washington simply plays straight defense, a stop is likely. Instead, Blache called not just a safety blitz but a double safety blitz. Speedster Dennis Avery was single-covered on a deep go route for a 43-yard completion, and the Rams kicked the winning field goal with two seconds showing."

ESPN/Football Outsiders has an article up right now that says that the Redskins and Eagles are the two highest blitzing teams in the league. 16% and 17% respectively. They are near the top of the league an adjusted sack rate. We're near the bottom. There is no doubt their blitz schemes are inherently more effective than ours. Good post.

And to answer your question, he blitzes mostly in third and long. Exactly when Easterbrook says you shouldn't.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think it's in the fine print that we're getting this debate. In my opinion, and I think skinsfan69's, if you have 1st and 10 and three plays later you're punting at 4th and 4 the fact that you just gained 6 yards is kinda moot. But for GTripp, that's 6 yards that the offense has moved the ball.

I don't get what you are saying here.

Of course 6 yards is 6 yards. But that's also a three and out, which happens too infrequently with this team to say we are a top five defense. We do force a lot of punts, which is good, but not until the ball has gone too far down the field, which is bad.

[GTripp0012]

SF69, I hope I'm not making it seem like I'm just being disagreeable. You've been right on a very many number of things throughout the years. I just wanted to point out that while we might be seeing this issue differently, my position probably makes a lot more sense when you let go of those factual inaccuracies I've pointed out. At no point do I expect you to agree with me that Blache is the problem.

But the offensive performance looks a lot less offensive when you know what I do about the defense. Still not good enough to contend for a super bowl, but far less horrific then you currently believe.

[53Fan]

This is what I really don't understand. Maybe someone can help me. I've read that Blache doesn't care about sacks that much. He wants his lineman to play run first. If this is true, why in the hell does he blitz so much? Isn't the point of blitzing mainly to sack the QB? Another thing. I understand that if you play the run first your sacks suffer. But on obvious passing downs, should'nt our d-line be getting more sacks. Obviously you don't play the run first in that situation. It's nice that our D is ranked #5, but to be near, or at, the top in the league in blitzes and near the bottom in sacks would tell me we better keep our safties and corners back because the chances of the QB getting the pass off are pretty good. I love defense and think I understand it pretty well but this puzzles me.

[A10sROCK]

the defense has played well this season. look at the stats.

The real question is whether Blache will stay past this season. He worked this year for the players. The REAL QUESTION is whether Blache will retire when this season is over.

My thought is that Blache will retire on his own.

Zorn will bring in another OC to replace himself. Danny Smith will be replaced. Danny Snyder will offer another shotgun to Blache but Vinny will need to find another DC.

Blache will leave on his own.

[tryfuhl]

Blache sometimes seems confused or stubborn in his schemes

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think it's in the fine print that we're getting this debate. In my opinion, and I think skinsfan69's, if you have 1st and 10 and three plays later you're punting at 4th and 4 the fact that you just gained 6 yards is kinda moot. But for GTripp, that's 6 yards that the offense has moved the ball.

I am happy that you posted this because I was about to go back and read all of that shit.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

the defense has played well this season. look at the stats.

The real question is whether Blache will stay past this season. He worked this year for the players. The REAL QUESTION is whether Blache will retire when this season is over.

My thought is that Blache will retire on his own.

Zorn will bring in another OC to replace himself. Danny Smith will be replaced. Danny Snyder will offer another shotgun to Blache but Vinny will need to find another DC.

Blache will leave on his own.

Why wouldn't Zorn just hand it over to Sherman?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't get what you are saying here.

Of course 6 yards is 6 yards. But that's also a three and out, which happens too infrequently with this team to say we are a top five defense. We do force a lot of punts, which is good, but not until the ball has gone too far down the field, which is bad.

You said there is absolutely no evidence that the offense has gone three and out on multiple occassions and failed to advance field position. I'm just trying to figure out why you would say that. Or maybe now the debate is over what you mean by "too infrequently"

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You said there is absolutely no evidence that the offense has gone three and out on multiple occassions and failed to advance field position. I'm just trying to figure out why you would say that. Or maybe now the debate is over what you mean by "too infrequently"

I may be totally off here but I thought he meant to say frequently. cause it happens all the time. 3 and out. Infrequently would mean it does not happen all that often ...right?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think it's obvious that both sides of the ball have their own issues to correct. And both have declined in the past nine games. I think the offense has declined further, because the offense had further to decline than the defense did.

I'm sorry for not admiting when I'm wrong after clearly proving myself right. You're probably looking at me as some arrogant prick right now. I'm okay with that.

But your claim that I'm wrong is that I'm OVERanalyzing stuff. You aren't even reading what I have to write. And that's why you aren't learning anything here.

We are simply not great at preventing points. That's not overanalyzing things at all. You cannot have read my post and still deny this. Eleven teams are better at keeping teams out of the end zone than we are. That is the very most basic measure of defense. Our offense isn't scoring enough touchdowns, given. But that's not the whole story, and if you think it is, then I probably had more respect for you as a poster than I should have.

If PPG is enough for you to feel like you know that we don't have an issue at preventing points, then whatever. Bottom line is that we are a 7-7 defense, and we need to get better to be a force in the playoffs next year. I think you know this.

Realize that:

• You said that the offense goes three and out way too much (I assume compared to an average team).
• You were wrong when you said this.
• I told you that you were wrong.
• I am not to blame for you being wrong, like you seem to believe I am. It is not my fault you did not know that our offense converts a 1st and 10 into another 1st and 10 two thirds of the time.
• The fact that you refuse to read anything I write doesn't make your statement any less wrong.
• I will not be apologizing for correcting you, simply because you don't want to admit that you were wrong.

I don't think you're a prick. I just thing you act like you a Mr. Know It All just cause you spend countless hours breaking down film and studying stats. Just cause you take the time to do this, you think your opinion is what matters. Then you get defensive when someone challenges you on it. You get defensive if I say other people who have played in the NFL and know more about football than you (or I) say the defense is not the main problem.

[Ruhskins]

I think people on this board probably feel that our defense should be like the Ravens D, a defense that carries a team and wins games for them. I don't think our defense is like that and people expect too much out of it. Because of our offense, our defense right now keep us in a game for 3 quarters, but fizzles out in the 4th. For the umpteenth time I will say this: a lot of the problems in defense would be solved if the offense was able to: cut down in 3 and outs, score more points, and win the TOP battle.

Now, does our defense has its problems? Yes. Could they fix a lot of things? Yes. But they are not the only reason or the main reason why this team is failing. When the offense starts to keep the ball, score points, capitalize on good plays by the defense (key stops, INTs, fumble recoveries), and actually doing their fair share of the work, then you can criticize the defense if the team keeps losing.

[MrJL]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think people on this board probably feel that our defense should be like the Ravens D, a defense that carries a team and wins games for them. I don't think our defense is like that and people expect too much out of it. Because of our offense, our defense right now keep us in a game for 3 quarters, but fizzles out in the 4th. For the umpteenth time I will say this: a lot of the problems in defense would be solved if the offense was able to: cut down in 3 and outs, score more points, and win the TOP battle.

Now, does our defense has its problems? Yes. Could they fix a lot of things? Yes. But they are not the only reason or the main reason why this team is failing. When the offense starts to keep the ball, score points, capitalize on good plays by the defense (key stops, INTs, fumble recoveries), and actually doing their fair share of the work, then you can criticize the defense if the team keeps losing.

I happen to think it'd be easier to improve the defense though.