Starting DT: Griffin and ?

SmootSmack · 06-04-2004, 03:14 PM

I think it's a given that Cornelius Griffin will be one of the starting DTs on opening day but who will open the season beside him? Vote.

MTK · 06-04-2004, 03:18 PM

Is Bernard Holsey still out there? I kinda liked him, he played with a high motor. I wouldn't want him starting but for depth we could do alot worse.

PSUskinsfan11 · 06-04-2004, 03:18 PM

I would say Noble when he comes back 100% unless we would pick up someone like Sam Adams but if not I would say Haley till Noble is 100%, but I would imagine alot of rotation going on.

jermus22 · 06-04-2004, 03:30 PM

We really need to sign a top-notch player like Sam Adams to hold down the other DT tackle spot. I also agree with MattyK, we need to re-sign Bernard Holsey. He definitely isn't starter quality, but he does provide solid depth and could be useful on third and long. I doubt Noble is healthy enough to start and Haley probably isn't good enough to start.

SmootSmack · 06-04-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Is Bernard Holsey still out there? I kinda liked him, he played with a high motor. I wouldn't want him starting but for depth we could do alot worse.

I didn't see him on the redskins.com roster

MTK · 06-04-2004, 04:13 PM

Daniels could end up playing alot of DT too, with Upshaw and Wynn at the ends. Regardless of who starts I think we'll see alot of rotating up front.

Adams could be an option, I just don't think he's going to come cheap.

SKINSnCANES · 06-04-2004, 04:15 PM

I dont see it beign any of those guys. I think Matty could be right and Daniels plays some DT to give Upshaw playing time. I still think we are going ot pick up another player before to long.

joecrisp · 06-04-2004, 04:42 PM

Given Griffin's size (6-3, 300), it seems like they would need to stick a bigger guy in there to cover the 0 and 1-techniques. Haley's size (6-4, 325) would seem to make him a more viable candidate for that role than Noble (6-2, 304) or Salave'a (6-3, 295).

I know that the 1-technique is not entirely about size, but it certainly does help. Noble for instance, is not the biggest DT out there, but he has been known in the past as a guy who can capably fill the 1-gap and take on double-teams. However, Noble's knee injury, combined with his smaller size in comparison to Haley, lead me to believe Haley should be the guy alongside Griffin.

I also expect Williams to keep a steady rotation going along the line, with Wynn and Daniels often lining up at the DT spots, depending on the situation.

I'm pulling for Salave'a to make a name for himself as a key reserve along the D-line. Hopefully, his reunion with Williams will lead to good things for him and the defensive line.

Phinehas · 06-04-2004, 04:59 PM

Joe,

Care to educate those of us who aren't exactly sure what the 0 and 1 techniques are all about? It sounds fascinating and I'm always up for learning something new.

Thanks,

--Phin

joecrisp · 06-04-2004, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phinehas

Joe,

Care to educate those of us who aren't exactly sure what the 0 and 1 techniques are all about? It sounds fascinating and I'm always up for learning something new.

Thanks,

--Phin

Absolutely, Phin. After all, how can this be the home of "Redskins Discussion for the Knowledgeable Fan" unless we share our knowledge?

When coaches explain to their D-linemen where exactly they want them to line up on a given play, they use a numbering system based on the O-linemen and the gaps between the O-linemen.

Using the Center position on the offensive line as the starting point, the Center is "0", the gap between the center and offensive guard is "1," the offensive guard himself is "2," the gap between the offensive guard and offensive tackle is "3," the offensive tackle himself is "4," the gap between the offensive tackle and tight end is "5," and the TE himself is "6". The TE's inside shoulder (or "shade-in") is "7," the gap fully outside the TE is "8," and the TE's outside shoulder (or "shade-out") is "9." It looks something like this:

.....TE...OT...OG...C...OG...OT...TE

8.....6....4......2....0....2.....4......6.....8

....9..7.5....3....1.....1.....3....5.7....9

So when I describe Jermaine Haley as a more ideal "0" or "1" gap player, I mean he is best suited for playing heads-up on the Center, or in the gap between the center and guard (this gap is also referred to as the "A" gap). This is because you generally want a heftier, "roadblock" type of DT in there as an anchor who can occupy two blockers (generally the center and a guard) without getting run-over. A successful "0" or "1" technician will divert blockers from the linebackers and other D-linemen, and make it easier for the linebackers to diagnose and attack the play.

Cornelius Griffin and Joe Salave'a, on the other hand, seem better suited for playing "2" or "3" techniques, where they will try to shoot the gaps between the OG and OT. Often, they attack the vacancy left when a guard double teams the "1" technician with the center, or when an OG double teams a DE with an OT. They are generally quicker and more agile than "1" technicians, but rely on the anchoring effect of the bigger DT to burst through the gaps and into the backfield.

offiss · 06-04-2004, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecrisp

Given Griffin's size (6-3, 300), it seems like they would need to stick a bigger guy in there to cover the 0 and 1-techniques. Haley's size (6-4, 325) would seem to make him a more viable candidate for that role than Noble (6-2, 304) or Salave'a (6-3, 295).

I know that the 1-technique is not entirely about size, but it certainly does help. Noble for instance, is not the biggest DT out there, but he has been known in the past as a guy who can capably fill the 1-gap and take on double-teams. However, Noble's knee injury, combined with his smaller size in comparison to Haley, lead me to believe Haley should be the guy alongside Griffin.

I also expect Williams to keep a steady rotation going along the line, with Wynn and Daniels often lining up at the DT spots, depending on the situation.

I'm pulling for Salave'a to make a name for himself as a key reserve along the D-line. Hopefully, his reunion with Williams will lead to good things for him and the defensive line.

Haley was my vote, I will also add this, his play toward's the end of last year was impressive, he didn't have the sack's, but he was penetrating into the backfield, I was wondering where he came from? I was kind of surprised he hasen't been more talked about as a starter, I thought I heard something a while back about him not being able to hold up all season, he defiently has the size we are looking for, I think he will be the guy, although we will probably see a lot of guy's get playing time on the D-line.

SmootSmack · 06-04-2004, 07:18 PM

I don't think Noble will be ready by the start of the season so I'm going with Haley. If I remember right he played most of last season with a broken thumb and considering that I don't think he did all that bad.

I think Matty is right though that Daniels could play a lot of DT as well. Not only to put both Upshaw and Wynn in there at DE but also when they ocassionaly put Washington or LaVar up on the line as well

JWsleep · 06-04-2004, 07:24 PM

Great post, Joe.

It would be great to see Noble out there and healthy, but my guess is that wont be for a while yet, if ever. I'll go with Haley, and let's hope it holds up!

MTK · 06-04-2004, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Haley was my vote, I will also add this, his play toward's the end of last year was impressive, he didn't have the sack's, but he was penetrating into the backfield, I was wondering where he came from? I was kind of surprised he hasen't been more talked about as a starter, I thought I heard something a while back about him not being able to hold up all season, he defiently has the size we are looking for, I think he will be the guy, although we will probably see a lot of guy's get playing time on the D-line.

I think you may be thinking of Bernard Holsey there offiss, Haley was banged up late in the year and didn't play much.

Drift Reality · 06-04-2004, 10:32 PM

Holsey is still a free agent as far as I know. I'm surprised there hasn't been more interest in him considering he would come cheap, and he can certainly fill a reserve role.

That being said, I have a feeling that we may see Haley in the starting rotation, with Wynn or Daniels sliding inside on nickel packages.

I'd like to say we may also see some 3-4 with Griffin at NT, and Mitchell coming in, but Griffin really doesn't have the requisite size to play there.

Lets hope someone gets cut in the next few weeks that can give us some decent minutes up front.

View Poll Results: Starting DT: Griffin and ?
Jermaine Haley	9	25.71%
Brandon Noble	16	45.71%
Joe Salave'a	5	14.29%
Other	5	14.29%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

06-04-2004, 03:14 PM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Starting DT: Griffin and ? I think it's a given that Cornelius Griffin will be one of the starting DTs on opening day but who will open the season beside him? Vote. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

06-04-2004, 04:15 PM	#7
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	I dont see it beign any of those guys. I think Matty could be right and Daniels plays some DT to give Upshaw playing time. I still think we are going ot pick up another player before to long. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

06-04-2004, 07:18 PM	#12
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I don't think Noble will be ready by the start of the season so I'm going with Haley. If I remember right he played most of last season with a broken thumb and considering that I don't think he did all that bad. I think Matty is right though that Daniels could play a lot of DT as well. Not only to put both Upshaw and Wynn in there at DE but also when they ocassionaly put Washington or LaVar up on the line as well __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

06-04-2004, 07:24 PM	#13
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,719	Great post, Joe. It would be great to see Noble out there and healthy, but my guess is that wont be for a while yet, if ever. I'll go with Haley, and let's hope it holds up! __________________ Hail from Houston!

06-04-2004, 03:18 PM	#2
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	Is Bernard Holsey still out there? I kinda liked him, he played with a high motor. I wouldn't want him starting but for depth we could do alot worse.

06-04-2004, 03:18 PM	#3
PSUskinsfan11 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: the port, PA Age: 40 Posts: 692	I would say Noble when he comes back 100% unless we would pick up someone like Sam Adams but if not I would say Haley till Noble is 100%, but I would imagine alot of rotation going on.

06-04-2004, 03:30 PM	#4
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Frankfort, KY Age: 42 Posts: 336	We really need to sign a top-notch player like Sam Adams to hold down the other DT tackle spot. I also agree with MattyK, we need to re-sign Bernard Holsey. He definitely isn't starter quality, but he does provide solid depth and could be useful on third and long. I doubt Noble is healthy enough to start and Haley probably isn't good enough to start.

06-04-2004, 04:13 PM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	Daniels could end up playing alot of DT too, with Upshaw and Wynn at the ends. Regardless of who starts I think we'll see alot of rotating up front. Adams could be an option, I just don't think he's going to come cheap.

06-04-2004, 04:42 PM	#8
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 48 Posts: 1,501	Given Griffin's size (6-3, 300), it seems like they would need to stick a bigger guy in there to cover the 0 and 1-techniques. Haley's size (6-4, 325) would seem to make him a more viable candidate for that role than Noble (6-2, 304) or Salave'a (6-3, 295). I know that the 1-technique is not entirely about size, but it certainly does help. Noble for instance, is not the biggest DT out there, but he has been known in the past as a guy who can capably fill the 1-gap and take on double-teams. However, Noble's knee injury, combined with his smaller size in comparison to Haley, lead me to believe Haley should be the guy alongside Griffin. I also expect Williams to keep a steady rotation going along the line, with Wynn and Daniels often lining up at the DT spots, depending on the situation. I'm pulling for Salave'a to make a name for himself as a key reserve along the D-line. Hopefully, his reunion with Williams will lead to good things for him and the defensive line.

06-04-2004, 04:59 PM	#9
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	Joe, Care to educate those of us who aren't exactly sure what the 0 and 1 techniques are all about? It sounds fascinating and I'm always up for learning something new. Thanks, --Phin

06-04-2004, 10:32 PM	#15
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	Holsey is still a free agent as far as I know. I'm surprised there hasn't been more interest in him considering he would come cheap, and he can certainly fill a reserve role. That being said, I have a feeling that we may see Haley in the starting rotation, with Wynn or Daniels sliding inside on nickel packages. I'd like to say we may also see some 3-4 with Griffin at NT, and Mitchell coming in, but Griffin really doesn't have the requisite size to play there. Lets hope someone gets cut in the next few weeks that can give us some decent minutes up front.

Starting DT: Griffin and ?

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