Skins need to free up cap room

[BeastsoftheNFCeast]

according to CC's cap sheets we have about 9.7 mil of space. With Arch and Patten released, we now have about 5.3 mil in space. We signed Wade for two years 6.2 mil contract. Lets lowball it and assume he only gets 2 mil this year. That leaves 3.3 mil left in space. Yoder, Boschetti, and Stoutmire are vets so they should get a decent amount, lets lowball again and say they get 2 mil between the three of them. That is 1.3 mil left in space. Derrick frost signed is getting 850K, which is probably about (lowballing again) 300k more than whoever he knocks off the roster. That is 1 mil left in space even after lowballing everything, and without drafting anyone. On top of freeing up space for the draft, we should have at least 1 mil extra in case anything happens durring the regular season and we need to sign more people. And it looks as if we still want to sign a starting gaurd, not have Wade be the starter due to us bringing in Zach Piller. It doesnt seem like there are enough people that can restructure to bring in Bly who I believe has a contract of over 4 mil this year. As I see it, Wynn, Daniels, Collins, and Maybe Rabach are the only people who look like restructuring can make an impact, but it doesnt look to be enough to bring in Bly, it looks just to be enough to not go over the cap.

Edit- I dont know why I didnt think of this, but Springs being released and taking a paycut, and Bly taking a paycut this year might be able to free up enough space, but I dont think that will happen.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BeastsoftheNFCeast

according to CC's cap sheets we have about 9.7 mil of space. With Arch and Patten released, we now have about 5.3 mil in space. We signed Wade for two years 6.2 mil contract. Lets lowball it and assume he only gets 2 mil this year. That leaves 3.3 mil left in space. Yoder, Boschetti, and Stoutmire are vets so they should get a decent amount, lets lowball again and say they get 2 mil between the three of them. That is 1.3 mil left in space. Derrick frost signed is getting 850K, which is probably about (lowballing again) 300k more than whoever he knocks off the roster. That is 1 mil left in space even after lowballing everything, and without drafting anyone. On top of freeing up space for the draft, we should have at least 1 mil extra in case anything happens durring the regular season and we need to sign more people. And it looks as if we still want to sign a starting gaurd, not have Wade be the starter due to us bringing in Zach Piller. It doesnt seem like there are enough people that can restructure to bring in Bly who I believe has a contract of over 4 mil this year. As I see it, Wynn, Daniels, Collins, and Maybe Rabach are the only people who look like restructuring can make an impact, but it doesnt look to be enough to bring in Bly, it looks just to be enough to not go over the cap.

Edit- I dont know why I didnt think of this, but Springs being released and taking a paycut, and Bly taking a paycut this year might be able to free up enough space, but I dont think that will happen.

Your math on Archuleta and Patten is off.

CC's cap sheets include Archuleta on the books for $2.4 million and Patten on the books for $3.2 million. Archuleta's dead cap hit is $4.5 million, so that's $2.1 million more than he was on the books for. And Patten's dead cap hit is $3.5 million, which is only $300K more than he was on the books for.

So $9.7 million of room, minus Archuleta's incremental hit of $2.1, minus Patten's incremental hit of $300K, equals $7.3 million in room, not the $5.3 you quoted.

Then layer in the Frost (500K beyond the rule of 51), Yoder (500K beyond the rule of 51), Boschetti (500K beyond the rule of 51), and Stoutmire (500K beyond the rule of 51). Don't forget, all of those guys are signing for around the vet minimum, but Frost isn't the only one that has the rule of 51 applied. I'd say between the 4 of them, they make up $2 million.

Remember, everytime we add somebody, we're bumping a young guy's salary out of the top 51. So if Stoutmire signs for the vet minimum of $800K, we bump a young guy worth $300K out of the top 51. So the damage for each of those guys is likely only $500K or so.

So $7.3 million minus $2 million, I come up with $5.3 million in room.

Then there's Wade, who probably takes up $2.3 million. Leaves us with about $3.0 million.

That's plenty of space for rookies. If we needed more (for Bly), we can still shed Renaldo Wynn or Todd Collins.

We're fine.

[skinsfan242]

I was under the impression cutting Patten saved us some money, I think $750,000? I know it isn't alot, but why did it cost us money to cut him? Good work on everything else.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

I was under the impression cutting Patten saved us some money, I think $750,000? I know it isn't alot, but why did it cost us money to cut him? Good work on everything else.

Actually you could be right. I've heard La Canfora quote that $750K in savings before too. There must be some tricky nuances with his contract, perhaps some of those likely-to-be-earned incentives. CC would probably know. If we're saving $750K instead of taking a $300K hit, then add $1 million onto my numbers, and figure we've got $4 million in room right now.

The other thing, if the 'Skins designated Patten as a post-June 1 release, then we'd save even more than that. JLC will probably have more details on Patten at some point.

[BeastsoftheNFCeast]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Your math on Archuleta and Patten is off.

CC's cap sheets include Archuleta on the books for $2.4 million and Patten on the books for $3.2 million. Archuleta's dead cap hit is $4.5 million, so that's $2.1 million more than he was on the books for. And Patten's dead cap hit is $3.5 million, which is only $300K more than he was on the books for.

So $9.7 million of room, minus Archuleta's incremental hit of $2.1, minus Patten's incremental hit of $300K, equals $7.3 million in room, not the $5.3 you quoted.

Then layer in the Frost (500K beyond the rule of 51), Yoder (500K beyond the rule of 51), Boschetti (500K beyond the rule of 51), and Stoutmire (500K beyond the rule of 51). Don't forget, all of those guys are signing for around the vet minimum, but Frost isn't the only one that has the rule of 51 applied. I'd say between the 4 of them, they make up $2 million.

Remember, everytime we add somebody, we're bumping a young guy's salary out of the top 51. So if Stoutmire signs for the vet minimum of $800K, we bump a young guy worth $300K out of the top 51. So the damage for each of those guys is likely only $500K or so.

So $7.3 million minus $2 million, I come up with $5.3 million in room.

Then there's Wade, who probably takes up $2.3 million. Leaves us with about $3.0 million.

That's plenty of space for rookies. If we needed more (for Bly), we can still shed Renaldo Wynn or Todd Collins.

We're fine.

I might be missing something but CC's cap sheets says the release fee for Patten this year is 5.3 and his salary is 3.0, which has a difference of 2.3. I heard that arch's hit is 4.5 which is 2.1 more than his salary for this year. You add 2.3 and 2.1 and subtract it from 9.7 and you get 5.3.

And we already 2 players that counted towards the rule of 51. So now we are 4 players short of filling a full roster. I added 5 players so we only subtract one player that gets kicked off, so 4 of those players full contracts counts and the remaining one has 300k or so subtracted off his contract.

My earlier numbers were generous, in reality all the players besides Wade should get around 800k. Wade should probably really get closer to 2.6 mil. That is 5.5 mil more off the cap (800k*3-300k+2.6mil). That is 200k over the cap with no draft picks signed, no starting Gaurd (and its not Wade, we are shopping for others), and not many options to restructure much money.

[steveo395]

Vet min contracts count the same amount as the minimum contract for a 2 year veteran, which is $435,000. They do this so teams are more encouraged to sign veteran players.

[CrazyCanuck]

I just did a cap sheets update (3/22).

I have us at $3.8M in cap room. This includes everything (Arch, Patten, Frost, etc.) except for Stoutmire.

I have Patten down for a $5.3M deadcap hit. I had his cap number at $3M, resulting in a $2.3M net increase. Part of the deadcap hit is a $3M signing bonus due this year. But if I'm wrong and that money was not guaranteed, it would bring his deadcap hit down to $2.3M resulting in a $700 savings like others have mentioned.

[BeastsoftheNFCeast]

Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck

I just did a cap sheets update (3/22).

I have us at $3.8M in cap room. This includes everything (Arch, Patten, Frost, etc.) except for Stoutmire.

I have Patten down for a $5.3M deadcap hit. I had his cap number at $3M, resulting in a $2.3M net increase. Part of the deadcap hit is a $3M signing bonus due this year. But if I'm wrong and that money was not guaranteed, it would bring his deadcap hit down to $2.3M resulting in a $700 savings like others have mentioned.

I'm sorry CC, I just dont see how thats possible. Did you also count Wades contract? I know I'm probably wrong cause ur the cap guru but I just dont see how thats possible to have that much in cap room. 2.1 for arch, 2.3 for Patten, .435x3=1.305 for Boschetti, stoutmire, and yoder, .850 for Frost, approx 2.5 for Wade, and Subtract apporx .350 from the guy that got cut. 2.1+2.3+1.3+.9+2.5-.4=8.7 We had 9.7, subtract 8.7 and that's 1mil. Even without having Stoutmire, that means that you dont subtract .4, so his addition of .35 doesnt really impact it that much. Are there any rules that I am not aware of (I just learned that vet mins count as .435, anything else like that?)? Are you using the rule of 51 because I am treating the cap as if it were the regular season?

[GridIron26]

Dudes, u guys re giving me a headache.. Too confusing..

[BigSKINBauer]

i always love to see how the skins push off cap hell. Its so much fun.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

i always love to see how the skins push off cap hell. Its so much fun.

Not only are they using creative techniques to free up space now, they can also do it to free up space for later.

Oh those crazy Redskin capologists.

I agree with Beasts of the East, having 3 million remaining under the cap after taking ~4 million in hits and making about 6 value signings does seem a bit questionable.

But cutting Wynn frees up like 3 million if we need it.

It would be nice to let the guy play out his contract here. He definately earned every dollar with his pay. Let him walk after this year. It's the best for all parties involved.

[GTripp0012]

Then again, I was ignoring the rule of 51 credits. These credits wipe out MOST of the value of those smaller contracts from the cap. It is plausible that we have about 3 mil remaining.

I stand corrected...by myself.

[dmek25]

all i know is, our capologist needs a raise

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BeastsoftheNFCeast

I'm sorry CC, I just dont see how thats possible. Did you also count Wades contract? I know I'm probably wrong cause ur the cap guru but I just dont see how thats possible to have that much in cap room. 2.1 for arch, 2.3 for Patten, .435x3=1.305 for Boschetti, stoutmire, and yoder, .850 for Frost, approx 2.5 for Wade, and Subtract apporx .350 from the guy that got cut. 2.1+2.3+1.3+.9+2.5-.4=8.7 We had 9.7, subtract 8.7 and that's 1mil. Even without having Stoutmire, that means that you dont subtract .4, so his addition of .35 doesnt really impact it that much. Are there any rules that I am not aware of (I just learned that vet mins count as .435, anything else like that?)? Are you using the rule of 51 because I am treating the cap as if it were the regular season?

Yeah Wade is in the numbers, CC has him down for a 3-Year deal worth $4.5 million, no signing bonus. The 2007 cap hit is $720K. That makes up a big portion of the difference.

[dmek25]

schneed, if the skins want dre bly here this season, do the numbers work?