Generational thing

rypper11 · 10-24-2007, 02:02 PM

In looking at other threads I think I am seeing a trend among the posters. Those of us that remember 82, 83, 87, and 91 seem to give Gibbs more leeway. Grind it out let the defense win it. Fans who only know the Turner, Spurrier et al eras want to be the greatest show on grass. Air it out and let the offensive talent do their thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but is it possible that for those that didn't watch the games the aura of Gibbs is bigger than the game and maybe his ways can't live up to his hype.

12thMan · 10-24-2007, 02:06 PM

Nope, don't think it's a generational thing at all. Many here, myself included, are from the Gibbs 1.0, and I don't think we cut him much slack.

I'm not overly critical either, but I've certianly aired out my feelings about his coaching on more than one occasion.

SouperMeister · 10-24-2007, 02:13 PM

I disagree. I'm from the Gibbs 1.0 era, and I don't give him a benefit of a doubt for what has been a mostly disappointing Gibbs 2.0 run. I give him credit for very solid personnel moves (Archuleta and Lloyd aside). When Gibbs returned, I figured that the D would be the issue and the O would be the least of our worries. It has been the other way around for the most part. Gibbs is in year 4 and still cannot field an offense that puts up 24+ points consistently. Hell, 20 points is something of a rarity during this second run. The NFL rule changes all but handcuff DBs today, yet Gibbs seems afraid to exploit that with any consistency. I predict that when Gibbs steps aside after next season, Jason Campbell will rapidly become the franchise QB that Gibbs was afraid to let him be as the head coach.

freddyg12 · 10-24-2007, 02:20 PM

I watched all those super bowls growing up. so I"m old school & a big Gibbs fan.

However, I think it should be pointed out that for some reason Gibbs is associated w/Riggo & running the ball. Never mind that Riggo was only on 2 of those s. bowl teams (1-1). Never mind that Gibbs was the o. coordinator for Air coryell when they were the first team ever w/3 1,000 yd. recievers. Never mind that the Posse were the first 3 wide recievers to have over 1,000 yds. Never mind the skins set a single season scoring record in 83-4.

Gibbs' offenses were just as much about the 3 wr set as they were the single back counter trey. While it's true that if Gibbs could run Riggo (or even Jamie Morris as he got the skins carry record in 89 v. iggles) all day he would, his teams got progressively more balanced through the years & his qb's always threw the deep ball.

I want us to run the ball as much as anybody but when you've averaged 2.5 ypc in the 2nd half since the g-men game, you have to look to get the ball downfield or in the flats to your other playmakers. I see us as a pass first O at this point. When Thomas comes back we can change that, but for now let JC make the throws we need to win.

irish · 10-24-2007, 02:28 PM

I remember Gibbs 1.0 as well and as unpopular as this sounds think Gibbs has been a huge dud this time around. He just seems slow to react and adjust. I would definitely like to see Gibbs step aside if this teams misses the playoffs again this year. I cut him no slack, nor should anyone else.

paulskinsfan · 10-24-2007, 02:29 PM

I totally disagree. Im 35 years old and I watched Gibbs 1.0 every single week. What we have now is Gibbs relying totally on GW for any and all Defensive decisions. Then, once we have a lead, Gibbs influences the playcalling by going into turtle mode with run, run, run, punt. In addition, I cannot remember clock management issues in Gibbs 1.0, and it seems like poor game management decisions are a weekly occurrence in Gibbs 2.0.

Monkeydad · 10-24-2007, 02:45 PM

It must be a generational thing, because I think using terms like "Gibbs 1.0" and "Gibbs 2.0" is gay. He's not a Microsoft robot, you know.

That was Patrick Ramsey, which is why his career crashed and performance could not be improved no matter how many updates you gave him.

On the specific subject, yes, I believe the kids that did not get to watch our smashmouth style in the 80s do not appreciate or even understand the system that Gibbs is trying to make successful again. The game has changed since his first coaching term, but I believe with the right players and some luck with keeping them healthy, the heavy running gameplan will work.

With the state of our offensive line now though, Gibbs may have to turn to Campbell's arm more than he's used to. I hope he does because I believe Jason can handle a more down-the-field offensive scheme well.

BrudLee · 10-24-2007, 02:48 PM

I also think that Gibbs had a number of different teams in 1.0 as well. The offense in 1983 scored 531 points - 33.2 a game. 1991 scored fewer (only 30.3 per game) points, but seemed to be as explosive as its 1983 counterpart. Not every year was that dynamic, but the teams were, by and large, able to score with regularity.

For whatever reason, the bar on Gibbs was set lower this time, as though he ground out his victories in his first stint. The number for individuals weren't gaudy, but those teams scored a ton.

Stacks42 · 10-24-2007, 03:09 PM

I remember Gibbs' first time around he was run run pass also, the O on had a couple plays and he dared you to stop them. Well now with free agency and salary caps, he doesnt have the offense line to execute his plan. Back then he had the biggest O line and they just pushed around d lineman, that doesnt happen anymore, there is a reason that "the hogs" were as famous as the were, they were the heart of the team. You could change runningbacks (Riggo, Byner, Morris etc.) and even change QBs (Theisman, Schroeder, Williams, Rypien), if you give a RB a huge whole or a QB all day they will put up monster numbers. Not to mention we had 3 great WRs (Monk, Clark, and Sanders), we cant even dress 3 quality WR this season. Zone blitzing and attack def and the change of the speed of the game have made Gibbs once high flying offense inept.

saden1 · 10-24-2007, 05:43 PM

All I want is a diverse and balanced attack...I want us to take shots down field with 33% of our throws. Don't get me wrong, if they're playing it safe and aren't giving up the deep pass then take whatever they give you.

djnemo65 · 10-24-2007, 08:13 PM

I think this was more the case during his first season here, when many of us younger pups were more critical in questioning what the Skins were doing on offense.

At this point, 3 years in, I think most would agree Gibbs has to stand on the merits of his current team.

skinsguy · 10-24-2007, 09:24 PM

Well of course I'm from the old school Gibbs and know what he is capable of. I don't limit myself to just what we see on the field, but more of what Gibbs has done from the ground up. I'm disappointed that this time around, the Redskins haven't turned into the dominating team it once was under Gibbs. However, I have to keep in mind just how horribly out of control this team was in when Spurrier left it.

I do honestly believe we should focus on what Gibbs is doing for the team now, and not what he has done for us in the past. However, we also should keep in mind that Joe Gibbs is the reason why the majority of us are Redskins fans. He has been the only coach to lead this team to glory three times within a decade. I believe his '91 team would take care of this New England team. I just hope his '07 team can find some way of doing it as well.

djnemo65 · 10-25-2007, 12:00 AM

Let me add that any other coach would have gotten crushed and probably fired after last season's disappointment. I think Skins fans were pretty gracious in blaming everything on Archuletta instead.

MTRedskinsFan · 10-25-2007, 12:34 AM

Wow! This is maybe the most well-reasoned thread discussion since I became a member. Great post from Soupermeister, freddyg and djnemo65.

Here's my one question: if Gibbs excelled at building a dominant O-line in his first tenure, why have we lacked that in this go around? Last year saw a pretty good O-line (because there were no injuries), but you can't really say the line has been totally dominant during Gibbs' second tenure.

KLHJ2 · 10-25-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

Wow! This is maybe the most well-reasoned thread discussion since I became a member. Great post from Soupermeister, freddyg and djnemo65.

Here's my one question: if Gibbs excelled at building a dominant O-line in his first tenure, why have we lacked that in this go around? Last year saw a pretty good O-line (because there were no injuries), but you can't really say the line has been totally dominant during Gibbs' second tenure.

Because before free agency

1. 17 rounds in the NFL draft
2. Once drafted, a player was dedicated to that team until he retired, was traded, or cut.
3. Roster size wasn't limited to 53 (You could have 70+; in other words a huge ass practice squad= more depth)
4. No Salary Cap (Washington was the second highest paid franchise in the 80's behind SF)
5. 28 NFL teams opposed to 32. (More talent to spread out over less teams)

10-24-2007, 02:02 PM	#1
rypper11 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,228	Generational thing In looking at other threads I think I am seeing a trend among the posters. Those of us that remember 82, 83, 87, and 91 seem to give Gibbs more leeway. Grind it out let the defense win it. Fans who only know the Turner, Spurrier et al eras want to be the greatest show on grass. Air it out and let the offensive talent do their thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but is it possible that for those that didn't watch the games the aura of Gibbs is bigger than the game and maybe his ways can't live up to his hype.

10-24-2007, 02:06 PM	#2
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Generational thing Nope, don't think it's a generational thing at all. Many here, myself included, are from the Gibbs 1.0, and I don't think we cut him much slack. I'm not overly critical either, but I've certianly aired out my feelings about his coaching on more than one occasion.

10-24-2007, 02:13 PM	#3
SouperMeister Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 60 Posts: 3,419	Re: Generational thing I disagree. I'm from the Gibbs 1.0 era, and I don't give him a benefit of a doubt for what has been a mostly disappointing Gibbs 2.0 run. I give him credit for very solid personnel moves (Archuleta and Lloyd aside). When Gibbs returned, I figured that the D would be the issue and the O would be the least of our worries. It has been the other way around for the most part. Gibbs is in year 4 and still cannot field an offense that puts up 24+ points consistently. Hell, 20 points is something of a rarity during this second run. The NFL rule changes all but handcuff DBs today, yet Gibbs seems afraid to exploit that with any consistency. I predict that when Gibbs steps aside after next season, Jason Campbell will rapidly become the franchise QB that Gibbs was afraid to let him be as the head coach.

10-24-2007, 02:20 PM	#4
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: Generational thing I watched all those super bowls growing up. so I"m old school & a big Gibbs fan. However, I think it should be pointed out that for some reason Gibbs is associated w/Riggo & running the ball. Never mind that Riggo was only on 2 of those s. bowl teams (1-1). Never mind that Gibbs was the o. coordinator for Air coryell when they were the first team ever w/3 1,000 yd. recievers. Never mind that the Posse were the first 3 wide recievers to have over 1,000 yds. Never mind the skins set a single season scoring record in 83-4. Gibbs' offenses were just as much about the 3 wr set as they were the single back counter trey. While it's true that if Gibbs could run Riggo (or even Jamie Morris as he got the skins carry record in 89 v. iggles) all day he would, his teams got progressively more balanced through the years & his qb's always threw the deep ball. I want us to run the ball as much as anybody but when you've averaged 2.5 ypc in the 2nd half since the g-men game, you have to look to get the ball downfield or in the flats to your other playmakers. I see us as a pass first O at this point. When Thomas comes back we can change that, but for now let JC make the throws we need to win.

10-24-2007, 02:28 PM	#5
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Generational thing I remember Gibbs 1.0 as well and as unpopular as this sounds think Gibbs has been a huge dud this time around. He just seems slow to react and adjust. I would definitely like to see Gibbs step aside if this teams misses the playoffs again this year. I cut him no slack, nor should anyone else.

10-24-2007, 02:29 PM	#6
paulskinsfan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: West VA Posts: 726	Re: Generational thing I totally disagree. Im 35 years old and I watched Gibbs 1.0 every single week. What we have now is Gibbs relying totally on GW for any and all Defensive decisions. Then, once we have a lead, Gibbs influences the playcalling by going into turtle mode with run, run, run, punt. In addition, I cannot remember clock management issues in Gibbs 1.0, and it seems like poor game management decisions are a weekly occurrence in Gibbs 2.0.

10-24-2007, 02:45 PM	#7
Monkeydad Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 45 Posts: 17,460	Re: Generational thing It must be a generational thing, because I think using terms like "Gibbs 1.0" and "Gibbs 2.0" is gay. He's not a Microsoft robot, you know. That was Patrick Ramsey, which is why his career crashed and performance could not be improved no matter how many updates you gave him. On the specific subject, yes, I believe the kids that did not get to watch our smashmouth style in the 80s do not appreciate or even understand the system that Gibbs is trying to make successful again. The game has changed since his first coaching term, but I believe with the right players and some luck with keeping them healthy, the heavy running gameplan will work. With the state of our offensive line now though, Gibbs may have to turn to Campbell's arm more than he's used to. I hope he does because I believe Jason can handle a more down-the-field offensive scheme well.

10-24-2007, 02:48 PM	#8
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: Generational thing I also think that Gibbs had a number of different teams in 1.0 as well. The offense in 1983 scored 531 points - 33.2 a game. 1991 scored fewer (only 30.3 per game) points, but seemed to be as explosive as its 1983 counterpart. Not every year was that dynamic, but the teams were, by and large, able to score with regularity. For whatever reason, the bar on Gibbs was set lower this time, as though he ground out his victories in his first stint. The number for individuals weren't gaudy, but those teams scored a ton. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

10-24-2007, 03:09 PM	#9
Stacks42 Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arlington Va. Age: 48 Posts: 835	Re: Generational thing I remember Gibbs' first time around he was run run pass also, the O on had a couple plays and he dared you to stop them. Well now with free agency and salary caps, he doesnt have the offense line to execute his plan. Back then he had the biggest O line and they just pushed around d lineman, that doesnt happen anymore, there is a reason that "the hogs" were as famous as the were, they were the heart of the team. You could change runningbacks (Riggo, Byner, Morris etc.) and even change QBs (Theisman, Schroeder, Williams, Rypien), if you give a RB a huge whole or a QB all day they will put up monster numbers. Not to mention we had 3 great WRs (Monk, Clark, and Sanders), we cant even dress 3 quality WR this season. Zone blitzing and attack def and the change of the speed of the game have made Gibbs once high flying offense inept. __________________ The NEXT special teams coordinator

10-24-2007, 05:43 PM	#10
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 45 Posts: 10,069	Re: Generational thing All I want is a diverse and balanced attack...I want us to take shots down field with 33% of our throws. Don't get me wrong, if they're playing it safe and aren't giving up the deep pass then take whatever they give you. __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

10-24-2007, 08:13 PM	#11
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: Generational thing I think this was more the case during his first season here, when many of us younger pups were more critical in questioning what the Skins were doing on offense. At this point, 3 years in, I think most would agree Gibbs has to stand on the merits of his current team.

10-24-2007, 09:24 PM	#12
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Generational thing Well of course I'm from the old school Gibbs and know what he is capable of. I don't limit myself to just what we see on the field, but more of what Gibbs has done from the ground up. I'm disappointed that this time around, the Redskins haven't turned into the dominating team it once was under Gibbs. However, I have to keep in mind just how horribly out of control this team was in when Spurrier left it. I do honestly believe we should focus on what Gibbs is doing for the team now, and not what he has done for us in the past. However, we also should keep in mind that Joe Gibbs is the reason why the majority of us are Redskins fans. He has been the only coach to lead this team to glory three times within a decade. I believe his '91 team would take care of this New England team. I just hope his '07 team can find some way of doing it as well. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

10-25-2007, 12:00 AM	#13
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: Generational thing Let me add that any other coach would have gotten crushed and probably fired after last season's disappointment. I think Skins fans were pretty gracious in blaming everything on Archuletta instead.

10-25-2007, 12:34 AM	#14
MTRedskinsFan Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 359	Re: Generational thing Wow! This is maybe the most well-reasoned thread discussion since I became a member. Great post from Soupermeister, freddyg and djnemo65. Here's my one question: if Gibbs excelled at building a dominant O-line in his first tenure, why have we lacked that in this go around? Last year saw a pretty good O-line (because there were no injuries), but you can't really say the line has been totally dominant during Gibbs' second tenure.

Generational thing

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