Should The Nats Trade Ryan Zimmerman?

[redsk1]

I read an article by Ted Keith of SI that dangled the question. The Nats are not going to be competitive, at best scenario, another 3+ years. Too many holes in the bullpen, starting pitching, the outfield, and I could go on. Why not explore the idea? What could the Nats get in return for a young player, improving bat, great defense, and all around good guy under contract for 4 more years right?

I understand they want to sell some tix. Make some money. Let's face it though, this team is really bad right now and there isn't too much light at the end of the tunnel. See what you can get for Ryan that might make the Nationals better in 3-4 years down the road.

In that time, you hope to have Strasburg coming into his own, the rest of the 2009 draft picks, 2010 #1 and others, and most likely a 2011 #1. A recipe for some big time talent in a few years, just not next year.

By the way, it should be noted, i'm a big braves fan, but wish the Nats well when they are not playing each other. I'm just not happy they are both in the East. What do you guys think, trade Ryan for 2 top prospects minimum?

[SmootSmack]

I understand what you're saying, but it'd be really hard to sell the fans on the idea of trading away a local star like RZ.

[SmootSmack]

They need to first name Rizzo GM permanently, and sign Strasburg (or trade him for Halladay?...like Halladay would ever go for that).

And it will be interesting to see who their next manager is, assuming it's not Riggleman. Lots of rumors about Bobby Valentine and Buck Showalter.

[jsarno]

Absolutely. It's time to think about the future. Obviously he is a staple of the team, but let's face it, this team is still sinking with him on the ship. You went out and got a player like Dunn when you didn't need to for instance. He would be of value to other teams, just like Zimmerman is of value to other teams, and they will likely give up VERY good farm players in quantity. I don't know what your farm looks like, but it's time to restock for the future. Stop trying to plug a gaping hole with a piece of chewing gum. Kep in mind, he's only 24, so you can keep him and hope he developes, but he'll be worth a lot...or should be. If you don't get a good offer, than I say no.

Losing a staple is not the worst thing that can happen...look at the Red Sox losing Garciaparra. We got the right things in return and went on a tear and won the series. I understand we needed only a few pieces while you need a ton of pieces, but the point remains the same. You need to think about what is best for the team in the long run. If you can get quite a few top notch future prospects for a "staple" when you're the worst team in baseball...you do it. What do you have to lose at this point? Is Zimmerman and Dunn really filling the seats? Are you winning? Time to do something drastic...and yes, the GM is to blame, that team was not staffed right, but ultimately, you need to replace those people and start over.

[GTripp0012]

Zimmerman is the exact age of player you don't want to be trading if you are the Nats.

He's 25. Sure, he's likely to enjoy his career year on a team that wins 72 games. And no, he doesn't play a premium defensive position. But he plays third base incredibly well, and he's the kind of player who can accelerate the rebuilding process.

The problem with trading guys like Zimmerman for prospects is that you almost certainly are going to wait on a bunch of people to come up and pick up a fraction of the production. If he was three years older, well, yeah then you have to do something. But he's still improving, and his value isn't at it's highest point, so you hold on to him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You went out and got a player like Dunn when you didn't need to for instance. He would be of value to other teams, just like Zimmerman is of value to other teams, and they will likely give up VERY good farm players in quantity.

Agreed on Dunn to the Nats not making very much sense. The good thing about him is, that he still comes with significant trade value, so you can flip him for prospects after the season.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Agreed on Dunn to the Nats not making very much sense. The good thing about him is, that he still comes with significant trade value, so you can flip him for prospects after the season.

The main thing with Dunn was just to satisfy us fans. It reminds me of The Simpsons episode with Mark McGwire: "Do you want to hear the awful truth, or do you want to watch me hit some dingers?!?!" The team wanted to show the fans that they're willing to put some money into an exciting player.



That being said and as much as I enjoy watching him play for my hometown team, I do hope they trade Dunn and another fan favorite, Nick Johnson, while their values are highest.

[redsk1]

If you can get multiple top prospects, including a pitching prospect, i think you have to consider it. Yes, you do have to account for the fact the you have sold RZ as the "face" of the Nationals too. But, if you can get a BIG return, the Nats should listen.

No brainer on Johnson, Dunn, and even Guzman. Dunn should fetch a top prospect or two as well i would imagine. He's a liability in the field. I'd even pay some of Guzman's salary if that's what it took to get some good prospects for him.

The Nats management needs to try to stock there farm system as much as possible right now to get better 3 years from now. They'll be better off for it. They'll draw more fans. They'll win more games.

[BDBohnzie]

They were talking about this for a bit on ESPN 980's The Sports Reporters yesterday. You either trade a franchise player because you need the depth and youth or you keep a franchise player because his contract isn't overbearing and build the team around him. Zimmerman isn't a top 5 3rd baseman in the league, so his demand waivers on whether a team thinks he still has upside, as his contract would be very pleasing to anyone who would take him. If I'm the Nats, I need to continue to build an identity, and it starts with Ryan Zimmerman. While he's not a Top 5 right now, he has the potential to be so.

The Nats need to open the checkbook and start spending money, and it starts with Strasburg. And then Bryce Harper next year. They also need to continue to build their farm system so that they are competitive 3-4 years from now. They need to trade Nick Johnson for a case of Schlitz and some beer nuts, so when he gets hurt, it's on someone else's watch. They also need to make sure they aren't damaging the likes of Detwiler and Zimmermann on the mound for the sake of fielding a rotation.

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by redsk1

No brainer on Johnson, Dunn, and even Guzman. Dunn should fetch a top prospect or two as well i would imagine. He's a liability in the field. I'd even pay some of Guzman's salary if that's what it took to get some good prospects for him.

While Johnson is a no brainer, they couldn't sell Dunn if they paid a team to take him. NO one stepped up to the plate in the offseason to sign him, which leads me to believe you'll get 1 or 2 mid level draft picks for him tops. Look at the deal they made to get Soriano out of town...they got virtually nothing for him.

Once they move Johnson, they can put Dunn on 1st where he belongs and hope he doesn't let too many go. Guzman has been solid at SS, and they really have no one in the system as the heir apparent at SS. Plus I don't see any teams reaching for a SS...

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Zimmerman is the exact age of player you don't want to be trading if you are the Nats.

He's 25. Sure, he's likely to enjoy his career year on a team that wins 72 games. And no, he doesn't play a premium defensive position. But he plays third base incredibly well, and he's the kind of player who can accelerate the rebuilding process.

The problem with trading guys like Zimmerman for prospects is that you almost certainly are going to wait on a bunch of people to come up and pick up a fraction of the production. If he was three years older, well, yeah then you have to do something. But he's still improving, and his value isn't at it's highest point, so you hold on to him.

Very good point, as a suffering A's fan im used to seeing our best players traded or flat out not resigned. Hold onto Zimmerman a little longer and get more value, or maybe the team gets better in the time being.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Zimmerman is the exact age of player you don't want to be trading if you are the Nats.

You certainly make a point. He's the prime age to develope, problem is you need to start over so that makes Zimmerman the model to which the others will need to look up to. Do you think he's that kind of guy? Is he going to be the veteran leadership the team needs when they rebuild? I think he's worth more in a trade, than in keeping him cause I think his value is high right now after making the all star game even though he didn't deserve to be there. He was only there cause of the rule that every team needs 1. Nonetheless, he made it, therefore his price should be valuable...but maybe I am over estimating the market. Also, keep in mind his age is when most people come up in the majors to make their splash. He came up when he was 20. This is his 5th season.

He's 25.

Just an FYI, he's 24 until September 28th.

Sure, he's likely to enjoy his career year on a team that wins 72 games.

LOL. Are you referring to a future team he will be traded to or this year's team? Cause the Nats are on pace for only 48 wins.

And no, he doesn't play a premium defensive position. But he plays third base incredibly well, and he's the kind of player who can accelerate the rebuilding process.

I actually think a good young 3b is at a premium. Look at the Red Sox for instance, they have stayed with an aging veteran (Lowell) that gets hurt every year. The difference is, Lowell plays GREAT d (although not at his typical level this year) and is a gold glover, something Zimmerman has a lot to learn about, but could easily get there. Right now zim's career fielding % is .961, while the leage average for a 3b is .954. Lowell's vs Zimmerman's 162 game averages on offense are remarkably similar though. Zim has the age factor and would be a great addition to the Sox. He could easily get better if he had the right people around him to teach him. He COULD develope in Washington over time, but if he stays, he will likely be the same slightly above average player he is right now.

The problem with trading guys like Zimmerman for prospects is that you almost certainly are going to wait on a bunch of people to come up and pick up a fraction of the production.

I absolutely agree if your team was a couple peices away, problem is you need talent, and lots of it. The only way to get it is through proper free agent pick ups, the draft, and trades to get youngsters with potential and develope them into stars.

If he was three years older, well, yeah then you have to do something. But he's still improving, and his value isn't at it's highest point, so you hold on to him.

He's not really getting that much better though. He made slight improvements on his batting average. Last year .283, this year .288 (+.005), and his career high was .287, so he's 1 point higher there too. He's on pace for 26 homers, which would be only 2 more than his career high. (4 more than his 162 game average) He's on pace for 97 RBI's which would be 13 fewer than his career high. (only 2 more than his 162 game average) He has grounded into 16 double plays which leads the league, and is on pace for 30 which would be a career high. He also is having a career low in fielding percentage at .953 (which is below the league average for 3b.) Don't get me wrong, I think the kid has talent to develope further, but his minor improvements this year don't mean much to me. He'd benefit from a change of scenary and coaching. I don't think he's going to be much better than what he is right now if he remains in Washington.
Now, if he's traded, and becomes a perennial all star, you will think that nationals did a horrible trade, but it won't calculate the fact that he is not making huge strides while technically in his 5th year in the bigs. Even if you don't count the 20 games in his first year he made the show, this is his 4th season and not making sizable improvements. So sell high while you can. He would be MUCH more valuable to a team that is only a couple peices away than he is to you.
I think the Nationals fans are really big fans of Zimmerman...and rightfully so. He's one of the few bright spots the team has had. That makes it harder to make an objective view of trading him or not. Fact is, the only players that are trade proof are super studs, and excellent pitchers, but even they are not immune. See: Roy Halladay trade rumors, or A-Rod trades. You always do what is best for the orginization as a whole, if Zimmerman doesn't get good value in return, but all means build around him, cause he is a good player. If he does, thank him for his service and wish him the best.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Very good point, as a suffering A's fan im used to seeing our best players traded or flat out not resigned. Hold onto Zimmerman a little longer and get more value, or maybe the team gets better in the time being.

First, let me say GTRIPP I was not trying to pick on you in my last post, you just brought up points that opened up the door for comments I was thinking. I enjoy your posts and the discussion that occurs from them.

zerohero, as an A's fan, you would think you of all people would be OK with it since you traded away big guns and got better from it. Every year from 99-06 you came in 1st or 2nd in your division. Seemingly every year you lost someone. You would make great trades, that seemed bad cause they were big names (Mulder, Giambi, Hudson, Zito, Tejada, etc) but always they turned out OK cause you got good players in return. The A's management doesn't want to spend the money to get that last piece of the puzzle. They were so close for so many years, but didn't want to pull the trigger to put them over the top. I don't see the nationals as that type of team. I think they have been misguided for several years, and now are trying to right the ship. They need a lot of players. The A's had good leadership but a front office that were chicken or unwilling to spend over a certain amount.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Agreed on Dunn to the Nats not making very much sense. The good thing about him is, that he still comes with significant trade value, so you can flip him for prospects after the season.

Absolutely...he is worth a lot to teams that just need a bopper.

[over the mountain]

i dont see how you trade zimmerman for prospects at this point. i wouldnt want to trade a known young talent for some prospect players "with potential".

the nats need a GM, and a damn good one at that, before they start trading their franchise player for prospects or doing anything major at this point. the decision to draft and not sign crow really hurts, i dont care if they get some mid-1st round pick as compensation. then to go out and draft strasburg, knowing up front the signing money he was demanding, and now looks like they wont reach an agreement is a joke.

when weiters was avail in the draft everybody knew he wanted 5 mil signing bonus. he was the top prospect but fell to the Os at no. 5. the Os knew the money he wanted upfront, drafted him then signed him.

the Nats need a GM before they start making GM decisions.

go skins!!