Playcalling

redsk1 · 10-12-2004, 03:16 PM

I'm a long time Gibbs fan and will continue to be one, however...Alot of the blame has to go toward conservative playcalling. The coaches need to mix it up a little. We've got talent. Let's face it, we've been beaten by better playcalling by our opponents this year. Throw some misdirection runs/plays in there instead of using basically the same rushing plays where Portis gains 2 yards. I'm sure Gibbs will make adjustments...

SmootSmack · 10-12-2004, 03:23 PM

First of all, welcome to the board

I think you're right. The team is playing it very conservatively and that leaves little margin for error when you play so close to the vest. I don't know what the reasoning is-lack of confidence in the players, still adjusting to the playbook-whatever it is Gibbs doesn't seem to be willing many chances. It seems like he puts in wrinkles to the offense-Thrash in the backfield, Jacobs starting-but they seem more like a diversion than anything else.

I really would have liked a couple of play actions on those 3rd and shorts the other day. That pitch out to Betts was just a terrible call

cpayne5 · 10-12-2004, 03:53 PM

Gibbs and Co will adjust. Took them 5 games the first go around, may take them >5 games this time. Time will tell.

Gibbs hates losing just as much as the rest of us, I think, and wants to turn it around. We, as fans, only know so much. We don't know what goes on during practices, meetings, etc at Redskins park, so we can't really judge the coaching completely on what goes on during the games (even thought that's when the W-L record gets determined).

We must wait it out and try to be patient in the face of all the crap we have to put up with in regards to co-workers, Cowboys fans, idiot relatives, and others that like to rub our faces in it.

MTK · 10-12-2004, 04:16 PM

I agree the system needs some tweaking.

Like I said in another thread I can't believe we haven't seen some 3 WR bunch sets. So far the passing game has been ultra-vanilla. With Gibbs studying some of the league's top offenses this offseason I can't believe we're seeing such a bare bones offense.

Perhaps he's trying to overcompensate for losing Jansen, or maybe the players on offense are struggling so much with the basics he doesn't feel they can handle some new wrinkles. Or maybe it's because we're always in 3rd and longs and we're forced into max protecting.

All I know is the offense has been putrid so far, something's gotta give.

SkinsRock · 10-12-2004, 04:52 PM

The offense has been way too vanilla. It really doesn't look much different than preseason, when we were all saying it's vanilla, just wait till the regular season.
To hell with "simplifying the offense", for whatever the reason. These guys are professionals. A little confusion here and there is fine (even with a couple penalties) if they are less predictable and moving the ball down the field.....and scoring! Mix it up!!!

offiss · 10-12-2004, 05:12 PM

I think this thread run's us right back to the Brunell prob., how can you surprise a D, or keep them on their heel's if they know you can't throw down field, they don't have to know the exact play we are running, they do know we have to run or throw a short pass, the prob. is we are not running the west coast offense here, this offense is designed to throw the ball down field, the best deception on the football field offensivly is, keeping the defense in the dark on whether or not you are going to run or pass, that will keep them honest, right now the defenses are dictating to us, they know we can't pass so they play the run, we have to be able to dictate to the defense.

In the past I have seen Gibb's offense become stagnant, with reciever's like monk, and co., and every time it was the QB's play, the QB is so important to this offense, it's sink or swim, all or nothing, it's not that way with every offense in the league, but it is with Gibb's

SUNRA · 10-12-2004, 11:45 PM

I think Gibbs is depending too much on Portis's running in the same way that Spurrier depended on Ramsey's arm and both have had the same result. What is uncertain is why scale everything back when that has certainly made the offense one dimensional and predictable? These questions along with others will be answered during the bye week. Let's hope more sophisticated running plays are implemented with more RB's to help Portis.

celts32 · 10-13-2004, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I think this thread run's us right back to the Brunell prob., how can you surprise a D, or keep them on their heel's if they know you can't throw down field, they don't have to know the exact play we are running, they do know we have to run or throw a short pass, the prob. is we are not running the west coast offense here, this offense is designed to throw the ball down field, the best deception on the football field offensivly is, keeping the defense in the dark on whether or not you are going to run or pass, that will keep them honest, right now the defenses are dictating to us, they know we can't pass so they play the run, we have to be able to dictate to the defense.

In the past I have seen Gibb's offense become stagnant, with reciever's like monk, and co., and every time it was the QB's play, the QB is so important to this offense, it's sink or swim, all or nothing, it's not that way with every offense in the league, but it is with Gibb's

I don't want to pile on Brunell here, but I agree with this. Right now the Redskins are not stretching the field. The defenses are crowding the line of scrimmage and making it impossible to run the ball. We need to make them pay with big plays and we are not doing it. Nothing will change for that offense until the defenses start to believe that the Skins can beat them deep.

SUNRA · 10-13-2004, 01:16 PM

If Gibb's philosophy is to establish the play action pass off of the running game and we can all see there is a serious problem with Portis and the running game. I have heard a lot of explanations given by Portis and people who want him to be successful and it doesn't ignore the fact that he is not cutting back against the line and creating something out of nothing. Now the O line can be responsible for not opening holes but what it hasn't given up is a lot of sacks. It's not Gibb's system that's the problem it's Portis's inability to read defenses and adjust to the game. Tiki Barber has made his line look better than it is simply by reading the defense and hitting the hole or cutting back against the line. We know Brunell is at the end of his career, but much more is expected of Portis ever since he busted through the hole on opening day. Unforturnately his fumbles have contributed greatly to at least two losses.

SUNRA · 10-13-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I agree the system needs some tweaking.

Like I said in another thread I can't believe we haven't seen some 3 WR bunch sets. So far the passing game has been ultra-vanilla. With Gibbs studying some of the league's top offenses this offseason I can't believe we're seeing such a bare bones offense.

Perhaps he's trying to overcompensate for losing Jansen, or maybe the players on offense are struggling so much with the basics he doesn't feel they can handle some new wrinkles. Or maybe it's because we're always in 3rd and longs and we're forced into max protecting.

All I know is the offense has been putrid so far, something's gotta give.

Tweaking is an understatement. I really think Coach Gibbs needs to raise the bar and even if that means there are some delay of game penalties, we at least mix up the plays. Many of us mentioned the vanilla offense in preseason and thought this was a smoke screen. That's why we are frustrated with what we are seeing. The offense will get better when the playcalling and execution of the plays get better. I really think the plays are too basic and doesn't pose a threat moreso than Brunell's arm not being a threat.

VTSkins897 · 10-13-2004, 02:48 PM

it definitely seems like they aren't spreading the field like they should be able to. the line gives us good time to throw the ball but how in the heck are we the only team that can't get open? is it the routes? i mean i don't know but the offense seems at times as bad as it's been. but here's to hoping we'll get it figured out!

skins!

royalboards · 10-13-2004, 03:10 PM

It definitely is getting ugly, but the season is still pretty young. I think gibbs is being a little to conservative on the calls. He needs to cut down on the max protection and maybe use it on third downs and spread the field out. Anybody notice that a draw play might work pretty good against the rush.

MTK · 10-13-2004, 03:11 PM

I have faith Gibbs will get this thing fixed, but it's not as easy as just selecting a new playbook from the options menu and going from there.

The changes will be subtle week to week. It would help things progress more quickly if the players would just start executing each play to it's full potential. Missed blocks, drops, wrong routes, guys lining up wrong, etc.

royalboards · 10-13-2004, 03:18 PM

i agree with what you said, you can't just start over with a new playbook, but you can add little wrinkles everyweek. It looks like all we need in these last four losses is one big play. execution is key, case in point, ladell betts missing that block on mr. reed. we are a team but indivuals need to step up and earn there keep.

offiss · 10-13-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

If Gibb's philosophy is to establish the play action pass off of the running game and we can all see there is a serious problem with Portis and the running game. I have heard a lot of explanations given by Portis and people who want him to be successful and it doesn't ignore the fact that he is not cutting back against the line and creating something out of nothing. Now the O line can be responsible for not opening holes but what it hasn't given up is a lot of sacks. It's not Gibb's system that's the problem it's Portis's inability to read defenses and adjust to the game. Tiki Barber has made his line look better than it is simply by reading the defense and hitting the hole or cutting back against the line. We know Brunell is at the end of his career, but much more is expected of Portis ever since he busted through the hole on opening day. Unforturnately his fumbles have contributed greatly to at least two losses.

Sunra, the prob. with Portis reading block's, and finding holes is, I really haven't seen any holes to run through, it's not like he's missing them, regardless who's in at RB, they seem to be running into a wall every time, the worst offensives I have ever seen, did a better job opening holes than we have, the question is why?

10-12-2004, 03:16 PM	#1
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Playcalling I'm a long time Gibbs fan and will continue to be one, however...Alot of the blame has to go toward conservative playcalling. The coaches need to mix it up a little. We've got talent. Let's face it, we've been beaten by better playcalling by our opponents this year. Throw some misdirection runs/plays in there instead of using basically the same rushing plays where Portis gains 2 yards. I'm sure Gibbs will make adjustments...

10-12-2004, 03:23 PM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	First of all, welcome to the board I think you're right. The team is playing it very conservatively and that leaves little margin for error when you play so close to the vest. I don't know what the reasoning is-lack of confidence in the players, still adjusting to the playbook-whatever it is Gibbs doesn't seem to be willing many chances. It seems like he puts in wrinkles to the offense-Thrash in the backfield, Jacobs starting-but they seem more like a diversion than anything else. I really would have liked a couple of play actions on those 3rd and shorts the other day. That pitch out to Betts was just a terrible call __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

10-12-2004, 03:53 PM	#3
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Gibbs and Co will adjust. Took them 5 games the first go around, may take them >5 games this time. Time will tell. Gibbs hates losing just as much as the rest of us, I think, and wants to turn it around. We, as fans, only know so much. We don't know what goes on during practices, meetings, etc at Redskins park, so we can't really judge the coaching completely on what goes on during the games (even thought that's when the W-L record gets determined). We must wait it out and try to be patient in the face of all the crap we have to put up with in regards to co-workers, Cowboys fans, idiot relatives, and others that like to rub our faces in it. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

10-12-2004, 11:45 PM	#7
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	I think Gibbs is depending too much on Portis's running in the same way that Spurrier depended on Ramsey's arm and both have had the same result. What is uncertain is why scale everything back when that has certainly made the offense one dimensional and predictable? These questions along with others will be answered during the bye week. Let's hope more sophisticated running plays are implemented with more RB's to help Portis. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-13-2004, 01:16 PM	#9
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	If Gibb's philosophy is to establish the play action pass off of the running game and we can all see there is a serious problem with Portis and the running game. I have heard a lot of explanations given by Portis and people who want him to be successful and it doesn't ignore the fact that he is not cutting back against the line and creating something out of nothing. Now the O line can be responsible for not opening holes but what it hasn't given up is a lot of sacks. It's not Gibb's system that's the problem it's Portis's inability to read defenses and adjust to the game. Tiki Barber has made his line look better than it is simply by reading the defense and hitting the hole or cutting back against the line. We know Brunell is at the end of his career, but much more is expected of Portis ever since he busted through the hole on opening day. Unforturnately his fumbles have contributed greatly to at least two losses. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-12-2004, 04:16 PM	#4
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I agree the system needs some tweaking. Like I said in another thread I can't believe we haven't seen some 3 WR bunch sets. So far the passing game has been ultra-vanilla. With Gibbs studying some of the league's top offenses this offseason I can't believe we're seeing such a bare bones offense. Perhaps he's trying to overcompensate for losing Jansen, or maybe the players on offense are struggling so much with the basics he doesn't feel they can handle some new wrinkles. Or maybe it's because we're always in 3rd and longs and we're forced into max protecting. All I know is the offense has been putrid so far, something's gotta give.

10-12-2004, 04:52 PM	#5
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	The offense has been way too vanilla. It really doesn't look much different than preseason, when we were all saying it's vanilla, just wait till the regular season. To hell with "simplifying the offense", for whatever the reason. These guys are professionals. A little confusion here and there is fine (even with a couple penalties) if they are less predictable and moving the ball down the field.....and scoring! Mix it up!!!

10-12-2004, 05:12 PM	#6
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	I think this thread run's us right back to the Brunell prob., how can you surprise a D, or keep them on their heel's if they know you can't throw down field, they don't have to know the exact play we are running, they do know we have to run or throw a short pass, the prob. is we are not running the west coast offense here, this offense is designed to throw the ball down field, the best deception on the football field offensivly is, keeping the defense in the dark on whether or not you are going to run or pass, that will keep them honest, right now the defenses are dictating to us, they know we can't pass so they play the run, we have to be able to dictate to the defense. In the past I have seen Gibb's offense become stagnant, with reciever's like monk, and co., and every time it was the QB's play, the QB is so important to this offense, it's sink or swim, all or nothing, it's not that way with every offense in the league, but it is with Gibb's

10-13-2004, 02:48 PM	#11
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 41 Posts: 890	it definitely seems like they aren't spreading the field like they should be able to. the line gives us good time to throw the ball but how in the heck are we the only team that can't get open? is it the routes? i mean i don't know but the offense seems at times as bad as it's been. but here's to hoping we'll get it figured out! skins!

10-13-2004, 03:10 PM	#12
royalboards Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2	It definitely is getting ugly, but the season is still pretty young. I think gibbs is being a little to conservative on the calls. He needs to cut down on the max protection and maybe use it on third downs and spread the field out. Anybody notice that a draw play might work pretty good against the rush.

10-13-2004, 03:11 PM	#13
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I have faith Gibbs will get this thing fixed, but it's not as easy as just selecting a new playbook from the options menu and going from there. The changes will be subtle week to week. It would help things progress more quickly if the players would just start executing each play to it's full potential. Missed blocks, drops, wrong routes, guys lining up wrong, etc.

10-13-2004, 03:18 PM	#14
royalboards Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2	i agree with what you said, you can't just start over with a new playbook, but you can add little wrinkles everyweek. It looks like all we need in these last four losses is one big play. execution is key, case in point, ladell betts missing that block on mr. reed. we are a team but indivuals need to step up and earn there keep.

Playcalling

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