Call me crazy...

MTK · 10-31-2004, 08:32 PM

But I'm standing by Gibbs.

I think it's pretty safe to say the playoffs are a long shot at this point. 8-8 would be a nice finish and hey, isn't that what many of us expected back in the summer?

We're 7 games into Gibbs' second run. I know people are just overreacting out of frustration but people are saying he needs to be fired, the game has passed him by, etc. I admit things aren't pretty out there, but I'm telling ya he's going to get things turned around. Maybe not this year to everyone's liking but as frustrating as it is, we have to keep an eye on the long term.

I remember hearing the same things about Vermeil and his 'older' coaching staff when he came back. The game had passed him by, he couldn't relate to today's players, etc. He came back to the game after 14 years away and the Rams went 5-11 in his first season and 4-12 in his second. Year 3 they were 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs.

He had very similar results in Kansas City. The Chiefs went 6-10 in his first season, 8-8 the 2nd and 13-3 in his 3rd season. The message is it takes time to install and establish your system and philosophies, and to acquire and develop the players you need to be successful.

And then there's Gibbs himself. Yes he appears to be rusty in game and clock management. The game has changed since he left, but he will adapt and he will get things figured out with time.

I know things suck right now, but we're on the right track with Gibbs. He will get this figured out, we just have to remain patient and realize Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are NFL Champions.

monk81 · 10-31-2004, 08:34 PM

I concur Matty. He doesn't have all the pieces he needs to run his offense. It's going to take another draft before the Redskins even start to turn it around. Williams has done a fantastic job on the defense and wasn't it Gibbs that enticed Williams to come to the Redskins. I ain't giving up on Joe, I'm giving him some more time to work his magic. Also especially this week, we brought in 2 new offensive lineman, changed the TE. It's going to take time to get them used to the time.......PATIENCE folks PATIENCE

Gmanc711 · 10-31-2004, 08:38 PM

I dont think anyone is giving up on Joe, I certainly am not. I'm just growing overally frustrated with the Quarterback situation, and Gibbs is the one that controls it. I mean we are 2-5 now and clearly Brunell is playing horribly. If we are focused on laying the groundwork and establishing a team, why did we even trade for Brunell in the first place?

Its seems to me that if we didnt wnat to use Ramsey, we should have traded him when we had the chance. I dont know.... I'm so confused as to whats going on at this point. We have so many weapons, and Brunell $&*($#(@ I dont even know.

illdefined · 10-31-2004, 08:38 PM

all these guys who wanna fire Gibbs (what a thought!), name ONE coach we were thinking after Spurrier that would have done a better job.

celts32 · 10-31-2004, 08:43 PM

I would never ever ever ever ever ever give up on Joe Gibbs...

VTSkins897 · 10-31-2004, 08:45 PM

yeah i talked crap but you're right... at the same time i don't feel bad saying things about him... that's part of the game and he knows it. i'll still always stand by the skins, no matter who's the coach.

d151b · 10-31-2004, 08:47 PM

firing gibbs is just ludicrous. but,,,,,,, BUT, how can he still stand by brunell at this point????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????

how? all of you brunell L and A's can go piss up a rope...... every single show i watched and article i read was basically said the same thing that most of us have been saying. he blows. firing 10 yards over the head of wide open receivers.... missing cooley, wide open in the end zone.... on and on and on

Paintrain · 10-31-2004, 08:53 PM

I am 100% percent behind Gibbs.. Anyone who is calling for his removal just needs to be slapped.. I am frustrated as we all are, but let's take step back off of the ledge. I think that at this point in the season we know that Brunell isn't the answer. We need to play Ramsey to see if he can get the job done. From the things I've read he hasn't looked very good in practice, but let's get him in the game to see what we have and how he runs Gibbs offense. If he sucks, then we need to address that in the offseason. I don't want to go into next year still unsure about the QB position. I think we need to improve our OL, a HUGE disappointment and get key people (Coles, Arrington, Bowen, Hall, Morton, Jansen) healthy before we start talking about getting rid of people or clowing the team up..

skinsguy · 10-31-2004, 08:56 PM

I still say if not for a play here and there our season could be above .500, so to say that Gibbs doesn't have it still is dumb.

justrick · 10-31-2004, 09:07 PM

First of all we did not have the number one rated defense in Gibb's first tenure. Personally I would bench BRUNELL, but I sell cars for a living. I understand Joe has HOLES ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE. God bless Ray Brown, but at 41 you'd think he could line up in the proper stance. Listen folks ain't nothing passed Gibbs by. No matter how much I want him to throw Ramsey in there my reality is not his truth. When we lose a game because James Thrash forgets to get in a three point stance, after we were trailing by 17 at halftime and should have been by at least 24. I AIN'T MAD AT CHA JOE OR OUR TEAM, BECAUSE HISTORY SAYS THINGS ARE PROGRESSING JUST AS THEY DID THE FIRST TIME AROUND. Fellow fans in DC, understand us fans stuck in Shreveport La are still holding on!!!

skinsfanthru&thru · 10-31-2004, 09:32 PM

It was mostly wishful thinking of Gibbs coming back and dominating right away again, but with our young stars on both offense and defense, we are closer this year than we have been in a long while. After the team was had a bit more time under the offense Gibbs has brought in, we will have the most balanced team we've had since Gibbs left. This season is looking pretty down but in years past, during some of these games, the team pretty much would have caved but through all of the teams(mostly the offense) troubles, the players fight and claw to atleast be in each and every game. I'm still holding out hope that this season can still be somewhat repaired, but I'm always a hopeless optimist when it comes to the skins.

djnemo65 · 10-31-2004, 09:43 PM

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]It was mostly wishful thinking of Gibbs coming back and dominating right away again, but with our young stars on both offense and defense, we are closer this year than we have been in a long while.

Let me preface this by saying what do I know, but I don't think it was wishful thinking to expect a playoff caliber performance from this squad this year. I look at a team that is rich in talent at nearly every position, especially on offense. Injuries have hamstrung us to a degree, but there's still no excuse for our offensive ineptitude.

If you had told me in preseason that we would be dominating teams on defense, yet losing because of our offense I would have thought that was insane.

I guess I am still in a state of shock regarding how wrong I was about this team.

skinsfanthru&thru · 10-31-2004, 10:01 PM

I know it was wishful thinking on my part because even with the talent on the team, I failed to realize how much time learning the offense and building team chemistry on the offense would take. I know I wanted Gibbs to return us from the depths of the league right away cuz of how tough the past 10+ years have been. but I too would have thought our defense would be the part of the team keeping us in games and our offense would at times be like a group of highschoolers playing in the pros and thats why I think in the later part of this season and next(with a fully healed jansen) our offense will be in the top 12 in the league.

skinsfan0201 · 10-31-2004, 10:18 PM

Mattyk, I don't think that the question is having trust in Gibbs. I think what he said on his show the other day is what his philosophy is on quarterbacks. That is completely backing the "1# guy" up and exhausting all possibilities as to why the offense is not working and then as a last possible move change quarterbacks. It is as if he has a promise that he feels he can't break regardless. I really believe that in a sense (though this is not intentional on his part) that he feels obligated to (his choice of quarterback) try to make it work. As a byproduct of this philosophy he has (in my opinion) placed Brunell on a pedistal whereas everyone else on the team are held to different (higher) expectations. At this point, the team is really starting to suffer, and instead of weather the storm, moral might become an issue. I hope that is not true for the Redskins sake, but it really seems to be time to see if (and I certainly believe in him) Ramsey would add the necessary spark to this struggling offense. As Riggo also said, it is also time to put pride aside and own up to what has transpired so far in the quarterback position, whether it is deteioration of skills, a mental block etc. Let's try to get this team on the right track, it is not about expectations, it is about watching the effort that is transpiring on the field and the contributions being made by the team in general with the exception of a few weaknesses. One of which is blatantly obvious at this point.

Skins1573 · 10-31-2004, 11:32 PM

Very sad season for me, as I was one with very high expectations. Makeing the playoffs for me wasn't the ? but how far we would go was, what I mean is with a gibbs team in the playoffs anything could happen, because of him being a great coach and to see this season going not well is heart breaking for me as I'm sure it is for all the fans of the Redskins. Qb, well I really don't want to go there since everything just about has been said, but who ever is to blame ( Brunell the most I think for offense) this team has not had an error free drive even if we scored. I mean look at the drop balls, false starts, ilegal movement, personal fouls. and of course turnovers, all of this almost happens in 1 drive, and every game which kills us and never gets us into a rythm/flow . Just my .02 worth

On another note the defense is playing very well and I would think can only get better when we get everyone back from IR. But for Williams I sure hope we don't loose him at the end of this season to another NFL team looking for a New coach. Seems like the same thing happend when we had Marvin Lewis, and of course he took the Bengals job ( I think williams is better then Lewis) But since Williams just lost his coaching job Less then a year ago and for this reason I hope teams won't go after him, or he will turn a Head coaching job down if he is offerd one.

Thanks

Skins1573

10-31-2004, 08:32 PM	#1
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,570	Call me crazy... But I'm standing by Gibbs. I think it's pretty safe to say the playoffs are a long shot at this point. 8-8 would be a nice finish and hey, isn't that what many of us expected back in the summer? We're 7 games into Gibbs' second run. I know people are just overreacting out of frustration but people are saying he needs to be fired, the game has passed him by, etc. I admit things aren't pretty out there, but I'm telling ya he's going to get things turned around. Maybe not this year to everyone's liking but as frustrating as it is, we have to keep an eye on the long term. I remember hearing the same things about Vermeil and his 'older' coaching staff when he came back. The game had passed him by, he couldn't relate to today's players, etc. He came back to the game after 14 years away and the Rams went 5-11 in his first season and 4-12 in his second. Year 3 they were 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs. He had very similar results in Kansas City. The Chiefs went 6-10 in his first season, 8-8 the 2nd and 13-3 in his 3rd season. The message is it takes time to install and establish your system and philosophies, and to acquire and develop the players you need to be successful. And then there's Gibbs himself. Yes he appears to be rusty in game and clock management. The game has changed since he left, but he will adapt and he will get things figured out with time. I know things suck right now, but we're on the right track with Gibbs. He will get this figured out, we just have to remain patient and realize Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are NFL Champions.

10-31-2004, 09:07 PM	#10
justrick Camp Scrub Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6	Remember Eight And Eight!!!!! First of all we did not have the number one rated defense in Gibb's first tenure. Personally I would bench BRUNELL, but I sell cars for a living. I understand Joe has HOLES ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE. God bless Ray Brown, but at 41 you'd think he could line up in the proper stance. Listen folks ain't nothing passed Gibbs by. No matter how much I want him to throw Ramsey in there my reality is not his truth. When we lose a game because James Thrash forgets to get in a three point stance, after we were trailing by 17 at halftime and should have been by at least 24. I AIN'T MAD AT CHA JOE OR OUR TEAM, BECAUSE HISTORY SAYS THINGS ARE PROGRESSING JUST AS THEY DID THE FIRST TIME AROUND. Fellow fans in DC, understand us fans stuck in Shreveport La are still holding on!!!

10-31-2004, 10:18 PM	#14
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 45 Posts: 234	In Gibbs We Trust Mattyk, I don't think that the question is having trust in Gibbs. I think what he said on his show the other day is what his philosophy is on quarterbacks. That is completely backing the "1# guy" up and exhausting all possibilities as to why the offense is not working and then as a last possible move change quarterbacks. It is as if he has a promise that he feels he can't break regardless. I really believe that in a sense (though this is not intentional on his part) that he feels obligated to (his choice of quarterback) try to make it work. As a byproduct of this philosophy he has (in my opinion) placed Brunell on a pedistal whereas everyone else on the team are held to different (higher) expectations. At this point, the team is really starting to suffer, and instead of weather the storm, moral might become an issue. I hope that is not true for the Redskins sake, but it really seems to be time to see if (and I certainly believe in him) Ramsey would add the necessary spark to this struggling offense. As Riggo also said, it is also time to put pride aside and own up to what has transpired so far in the quarterback position, whether it is deteioration of skills, a mental block etc. Let's try to get this team on the right track, it is not about expectations, it is about watching the effort that is transpiring on the field and the contributions being made by the team in general with the exception of a few weaknesses. One of which is blatantly obvious at this point.

10-31-2004, 08:34 PM	#2
monk81 The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: TEXAS Posts: 2,029	I concur Matty. He doesn't have all the pieces he needs to run his offense. It's going to take another draft before the Redskins even start to turn it around. Williams has done a fantastic job on the defense and wasn't it Gibbs that enticed Williams to come to the Redskins. I ain't giving up on Joe, I'm giving him some more time to work his magic. Also especially this week, we brought in 2 new offensive lineman, changed the TE. It's going to take time to get them used to the time.......PATIENCE folks PATIENCE

10-31-2004, 08:38 PM	#3
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	I dont think anyone is giving up on Joe, I certainly am not. I'm just growing overally frustrated with the Quarterback situation, and Gibbs is the one that controls it. I mean we are 2-5 now and clearly Brunell is playing horribly. If we are focused on laying the groundwork and establishing a team, why did we even trade for Brunell in the first place? Its seems to me that if we didnt wnat to use Ramsey, we should have traded him when we had the chance. I dont know.... I'm so confused as to whats going on at this point. We have so many weapons, and Brunell $&*($#(@ I dont even know.

10-31-2004, 08:38 PM	#4
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	all these guys who wanna fire Gibbs (what a thought!), name ONE coach we were thinking after Spurrier that would have done a better job.

10-31-2004, 08:43 PM	#5
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	I would never ever ever ever ever ever give up on Joe Gibbs...

10-31-2004, 08:45 PM	#6
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 41 Posts: 890	yeah i talked crap but you're right... at the same time i don't feel bad saying things about him... that's part of the game and he knows it. i'll still always stand by the skins, no matter who's the coach.

10-31-2004, 08:47 PM	#7
d151b Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 157	firing gibbs is just ludicrous. but,,,,,,, BUT, how can he still stand by brunell at this point????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? how? all of you brunell L and A's can go piss up a rope...... every single show i watched and article i read was basically said the same thing that most of us have been saying. he blows. firing 10 yards over the head of wide open receivers.... missing cooley, wide open in the end zone.... on and on and on

10-31-2004, 08:53 PM	#8
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	I am 100% percent behind Gibbs.. Anyone who is calling for his removal just needs to be slapped.. I am frustrated as we all are, but let's take step back off of the ledge. I think that at this point in the season we know that Brunell isn't the answer. We need to play Ramsey to see if he can get the job done. From the things I've read he hasn't looked very good in practice, but let's get him in the game to see what we have and how he runs Gibbs offense. If he sucks, then we need to address that in the offseason. I don't want to go into next year still unsure about the QB position. I think we need to improve our OL, a HUGE disappointment and get key people (Coles, Arrington, Bowen, Hall, Morton, Jansen) healthy before we start talking about getting rid of people or clowing the team up..

10-31-2004, 08:56 PM	#9
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I still say if not for a play here and there our season could be above .500, so to say that Gibbs doesn't have it still is dumb.

10-31-2004, 09:32 PM	#11
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 44 Posts: 3,813	It was mostly wishful thinking of Gibbs coming back and dominating right away again, but with our young stars on both offense and defense, we are closer this year than we have been in a long while. After the team was had a bit more time under the offense Gibbs has brought in, we will have the most balanced team we've had since Gibbs left. This season is looking pretty down but in years past, during some of these games, the team pretty much would have caved but through all of the teams(mostly the offense) troubles, the players fight and claw to atleast be in each and every game. I'm still holding out hope that this season can still be somewhat repaired, but I'm always a hopeless optimist when it comes to the skins.

10-31-2004, 09:43 PM	#12
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]It was mostly wishful thinking of Gibbs coming back and dominating right away again, but with our young stars on both offense and defense, we are closer this year than we have been in a long while. Let me preface this by saying what do I know, but I don't think it was wishful thinking to expect a playoff caliber performance from this squad this year. I look at a team that is rich in talent at nearly every position, especially on offense. Injuries have hamstrung us to a degree, but there's still no excuse for our offensive ineptitude. If you had told me in preseason that we would be dominating teams on defense, yet losing because of our offense I would have thought that was insane. I guess I am still in a state of shock regarding how wrong I was about this team.

10-31-2004, 10:01 PM	#13
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 44 Posts: 3,813	I know it was wishful thinking on my part because even with the talent on the team, I failed to realize how much time learning the offense and building team chemistry on the offense would take. I know I wanted Gibbs to return us from the depths of the league right away cuz of how tough the past 10+ years have been. but I too would have thought our defense would be the part of the team keeping us in games and our offense would at times be like a group of highschoolers playing in the pros and thats why I think in the later part of this season and next(with a fully healed jansen) our offense will be in the top 12 in the league.

10-31-2004, 11:32 PM	#15
Skins1573 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 24	Very sad season for me, as I was one with very high expectations. Makeing the playoffs for me wasn't the ? but how far we would go was, what I mean is with a gibbs team in the playoffs anything could happen, because of him being a great coach and to see this season going not well is heart breaking for me as I'm sure it is for all the fans of the Redskins. Qb, well I really don't want to go there since everything just about has been said, but who ever is to blame ( Brunell the most I think for offense) this team has not had an error free drive even if we scored. I mean look at the drop balls, false starts, ilegal movement, personal fouls. and of course turnovers, all of this almost happens in 1 drive, and every game which kills us and never gets us into a rythm/flow . Just my .02 worth On another note the defense is playing very well and I would think can only get better when we get everyone back from IR. But for Williams I sure hope we don't loose him at the end of this season to another NFL team looking for a New coach. Seems like the same thing happend when we had Marvin Lewis, and of course he took the Bengals job ( I think williams is better then Lewis) But since Williams just lost his coaching job Less then a year ago and for this reason I hope teams won't go after him, or he will turn a Head coaching job down if he is offerd one. Thanks Skins1573

Call me crazy...

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