O-line The Real Problem

offiss · 12-19-2004, 04:48 AM

I have finally come to the conclusion that our O-line is at the heart of our problem's as an offense, we can't run up the middle Raymer, Dockery, cannot move people off the line of scrimmage and Raymer is being dominated inside I am not impressed with Portis he seem's a little hesitant to hit the holes full bore he had 110 yds but it took him 35 carries to get there not all his fault but he's not breaking any tackles either, we can add in a fumble as well as a 15 yd taunting penalty late in the game as if he's in a position to critisize, and rub it in to other's.

My thought on the play calling comes down to this, because of our inability to run with any real authority it really limit's Gibb's to what he can do on offense with his playcalling, we did a much better job of getting the offense into position fast enough with no urgency as the play clock was running down nice adjustment by Gibb's especially on the road, but team's just don't respect our running game and why should they? We really have had little success running the ball when we really need to, our red zone run game is none existant, I don't care who your back is we could bring Riggo out of retirement and we should run the ball better than we are.

Gardner had a nice game so let's trade him now before he burn's us again, as usual even when he makes a catch he's bobbling the ball all over the place the guy scares me.

Ramsey seemed much more comfortable today and his passes where much more accurate, our reciever's weren't having to stretch all over the place to make catches he was hitting them right in the hand's, not perfect but he does keep improving.

Final annalasist, we have to make our O-line first and formost top priority this offseason, problem is that's easier said than done, but if we want to contend we have to upgrade, Thomas, and Jansen, stay, the rest are on the chopping block, Brown can come back but as a backup, I would also like to see more of Wilson, and Molinaro, the rest of the season to see if they are potential starter's for next season.

Taylor just keep's impressing more, and more, this kid has a real shot at going down as one of the all time great's at the saftey position.

Nice to see Lavar out there finally, I had to laugh when he laid out that pulling guard, impressive, a LB dropping a 300lb lineman like a bag of dirt, I don't really like him on the strong side I would rather have him rush the passer from the QB's blindside I am curious why William's did that?

Bottom line? Fix the line!

skins009 · 12-19-2004, 11:04 AM

Cory Raymer and Ray Brown are horrible. Dockery has been inconsistent. But I think his play is gradually improving. We must upgrade center. And Jansen will be back at right tackle.

Daseal · 12-19-2004, 12:39 PM

Dockery made a few really good plays. I wonder why we keep going between the tackles. Why don't we stretch the field out. It seems to work very well for Portis. He can run inbetween the tackles, but he's much better if we give him some room. What happened to the Giants. Start going, look, look, look cut inside. Just like the Falcons do with Warrick Dunn. Let him pick his holes and run how he feels comfortable.

To me, the dropoff between this game and the Eagles was somewhat sad. I felt better about our team after the Eagles loss than the San Fran win. =/

gortiz · 12-19-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

To me, the dropoff between this game and the Eagles was somewhat sad. I felt better about our team after the Eagles loss than the San Fran win. =/

You also got to take into account that the skins played a late Sunday game, which means they probalbly didn't practice till Tuesday or maybe Wednesday, then I'm sure Friday was a travel day. How many days is that to practice and prepare, maybe two??? Not excuses just facts. San Fran has the 15 rated Defense in the league, not bad....and playing at home that makes them that better.

MTK · 12-19-2004, 01:55 PM

I agree the line is a problem, especially in short yardage.

When you have first and goal inside the 5 and you can't push guys off the ball and pound it in, that's a problem. If you have to think about throwing on 1st or 2nd down when you're that close, that's a problem.

I don't want to hear about how playcalling is a problem at the goal line, because it's simply not. I also don't want to hear that Portis is too small to be a goal line back because that's also not true, he scored 29 TD's in his 2 seasons in Denver. The difference between his time in Denver and his first year here is very simple, the offensive line.

As the old saying goes it all starts up front, and all year we've had problems in short yardage situations. Short yardage comes down to simply beating the guy in front of you, it's nothing fancy, it's hat on a hat and the best man wins, and all year we've struggled in those situations.

With Jansen back and an upgrade at center, we should see a huge difference next year.

MTK · 12-19-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gortiz

You also got to take into account that the skins played a late Sunday game, which means they probalbly didn't practice till Tuesday or maybe Wednesday, then I'm sure Friday was a travel day. How many days is that to practice and prepare, maybe two??? Not excuses just facts. San Fran has the 15 rated Defense in the league, not bad....and playing at home that makes them that better.

I agree, going across the country to play after coming off a very emotional division loss isn't an easy thing to do in the least bit.

I was very pleased with the effort against the 49ers.

Daseal · 12-19-2004, 02:15 PM

Because god knows 3 runs up the middle is as good as playcalling can get!

MTK · 12-19-2004, 02:29 PM

If they punch it in on one of those runs the "playcalling" is a non-issue.

Like I said, if you can't punch it in on 1st and goal there's a problem that is deeper than the playcalling. If you have to get creative on 1st and goal, that's a problem.

skinsguy · 12-19-2004, 02:32 PM

As opposed to three pass plays that could either be picked off or fall incomplete.

Redskins_P · 12-19-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

As opposed to three pass plays that could either be picked off or fall incomplete.

or give up a sack and lose yards

skinsguy · 12-19-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If they punch it in on one of those runs the "playcalling" is a non-issue.

Like I said, if you can't punch it in on 1st and goal there's a problem that is deeper than the playcalling. If you have to get creative on 1st and goal, that's a problem.

Matty, until the Redskins win the Super Bowl, some "fans" will have no faith in Joe Gibbs whatsoever.

LongTimeSkinsFan · 12-19-2004, 03:18 PM

Skinsguy and Mattyk: Agreed! Right on target. As I have said in the past... our first and foremost priority in the off-season is to improve our O-line. That's where it all starts for any offense regardless of who the head coach is. Jansen is a lock and I think Samuels is a lock as well but we need to renegotiate his contract is possible. Thomas is a lock as well. I'd be anxious to see what the rookie linemen can do. I know the one rookie that started seemed to do well but got hurt (Wilson or something like that?). Ray Brown could be kept as a back up if not too expensive and the same goes for Cory Raymer. He may have been something years ago but injuries have really hurt his game. Trust me guys, a solid O-line will solve about 90% of our offensive woes. The other ten percent comes with time to gel.

Daseal · 12-19-2004, 07:36 PM

How many times have we scored on Tthrowing as opposed to running? 14 throwing TDs and 5 rushing TDs. So obviously throwing works. We tried going around the side once, and had Portis not run 15 yards backwards it would have netted the same gain as running up the middle. We don't have a dominating interior (or exterior) for that matter. I'd also rather try for a TD than virtually give up by trying to run between the tackles.

I still feel playcalling is too conservative. Especially in the redzone.

hurrykaine · 12-19-2004, 08:08 PM

irrespective of how poor the O-line played, Clinton Portis did not come out with any intensity yesterday - he looked rather lackadaisical and dazed for the most part. Anyone else agree?

LongTimeSkinsFan · 12-19-2004, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I agree, going across the country to play after coming off a very emotional division loss isn't an easy thing to do in the least bit.

I was very pleased with the effort against the 49ers.

So was I Matty... end result- it got us another W. Anyone that wants to argue a win, be my guest. All I know is, there's no need to feel good about yourself because you played a good game and lost. There's no need to make excuses about coulda woulda shoulda, because you won. The real project is to focus on next week's game against the 'Boys and what we need to do to win it!

12-19-2004, 04:48 AM	#1
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	O-line The Real Problem I have finally come to the conclusion that our O-line is at the heart of our problem's as an offense, we can't run up the middle Raymer, Dockery, cannot move people off the line of scrimmage and Raymer is being dominated inside I am not impressed with Portis he seem's a little hesitant to hit the holes full bore he had 110 yds but it took him 35 carries to get there not all his fault but he's not breaking any tackles either, we can add in a fumble as well as a 15 yd taunting penalty late in the game as if he's in a position to critisize, and rub it in to other's. My thought on the play calling comes down to this, because of our inability to run with any real authority it really limit's Gibb's to what he can do on offense with his playcalling, we did a much better job of getting the offense into position fast enough with no urgency as the play clock was running down nice adjustment by Gibb's especially on the road, but team's just don't respect our running game and why should they? We really have had little success running the ball when we really need to, our red zone run game is none existant, I don't care who your back is we could bring Riggo out of retirement and we should run the ball better than we are. Gardner had a nice game so let's trade him now before he burn's us again, as usual even when he makes a catch he's bobbling the ball all over the place the guy scares me. Ramsey seemed much more comfortable today and his passes where much more accurate, our reciever's weren't having to stretch all over the place to make catches he was hitting them right in the hand's, not perfect but he does keep improving. Final annalasist, we have to make our O-line first and formost top priority this offseason, problem is that's easier said than done, but if we want to contend we have to upgrade, Thomas, and Jansen, stay, the rest are on the chopping block, Brown can come back but as a backup, I would also like to see more of Wilson, and Molinaro, the rest of the season to see if they are potential starter's for next season. Taylor just keep's impressing more, and more, this kid has a real shot at going down as one of the all time great's at the saftey position. Nice to see Lavar out there finally, I had to laugh when he laid out that pulling guard, impressive, a LB dropping a 300lb lineman like a bag of dirt, I don't really like him on the strong side I would rather have him rush the passer from the QB's blindside I am curious why William's did that? Bottom line? Fix the line!

12-19-2004, 11:04 AM	#2
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	Cory Raymer and Ray Brown are horrible. Dockery has been inconsistent. But I think his play is gradually improving. We must upgrade center. And Jansen will be back at right tackle.

12-19-2004, 12:39 PM	#3
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Dockery made a few really good plays. I wonder why we keep going between the tackles. Why don't we stretch the field out. It seems to work very well for Portis. He can run inbetween the tackles, but he's much better if we give him some room. What happened to the Giants. Start going, look, look, look cut inside. Just like the Falcons do with Warrick Dunn. Let him pick his holes and run how he feels comfortable. To me, the dropoff between this game and the Eagles was somewhat sad. I felt better about our team after the Eagles loss than the San Fran win. =/

12-19-2004, 01:55 PM	#5
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I agree the line is a problem, especially in short yardage. When you have first and goal inside the 5 and you can't push guys off the ball and pound it in, that's a problem. If you have to think about throwing on 1st or 2nd down when you're that close, that's a problem. I don't want to hear about how playcalling is a problem at the goal line, because it's simply not. I also don't want to hear that Portis is too small to be a goal line back because that's also not true, he scored 29 TD's in his 2 seasons in Denver. The difference between his time in Denver and his first year here is very simple, the offensive line. As the old saying goes it all starts up front, and all year we've had problems in short yardage situations. Short yardage comes down to simply beating the guy in front of you, it's nothing fancy, it's hat on a hat and the best man wins, and all year we've struggled in those situations. With Jansen back and an upgrade at center, we should see a huge difference next year.

12-19-2004, 02:15 PM	#7
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Because god knows 3 runs up the middle is as good as playcalling can get!

12-19-2004, 02:29 PM	#8
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	If they punch it in on one of those runs the "playcalling" is a non-issue. Like I said, if you can't punch it in on 1st and goal there's a problem that is deeper than the playcalling. If you have to get creative on 1st and goal, that's a problem.

12-19-2004, 02:32 PM	#9
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	As opposed to three pass plays that could either be picked off or fall incomplete.

12-19-2004, 03:18 PM	#12
LongTimeSkinsFan Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: LaVale MD Age: 62 Posts: 515	Skinsguy and Mattyk: Agreed! Right on target. As I have said in the past... our first and foremost priority in the off-season is to improve our O-line. That's where it all starts for any offense regardless of who the head coach is. Jansen is a lock and I think Samuels is a lock as well but we need to renegotiate his contract is possible. Thomas is a lock as well. I'd be anxious to see what the rookie linemen can do. I know the one rookie that started seemed to do well but got hurt (Wilson or something like that?). Ray Brown could be kept as a back up if not too expensive and the same goes for Cory Raymer. He may have been something years ago but injuries have really hurt his game. Trust me guys, a solid O-line will solve about 90% of our offensive woes. The other ten percent comes with time to gel.

12-19-2004, 07:36 PM	#13
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	How many times have we scored on Tthrowing as opposed to running? 14 throwing TDs and 5 rushing TDs. So obviously throwing works. We tried going around the side once, and had Portis not run 15 yards backwards it would have netted the same gain as running up the middle. We don't have a dominating interior (or exterior) for that matter. I'd also rather try for a TD than virtually give up by trying to run between the tackles. I still feel playcalling is too conservative. Especially in the redzone.

12-19-2004, 08:08 PM	#14
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	irrespective of how poor the O-line played, Clinton Portis did not come out with any intensity yesterday - he looked rather lackadaisical and dazed for the most part. Anyone else agree?

O-line The Real Problem

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