Worst off-season thus far? The NFL?

TheCDV · 03-16-2004, 06:40 PM

It’s very simple! The NFL!

Clearly, in the last 2 months the NFL has taken a severe beating between today's TO ruling and the Maurice Clarett ruling several weeks ago. The NFL has worked diligently to separate itself from the other professional leagues... unfortunately their efforts are slowly becoming nonexistent.

No doubt that it was only a matter of time before the age restrictions with regards to entering the NFL were lifted.... because the bottom line is that no organization in this country can prevent a legal adult from finding work. With that said.... it certainly does not take way from the fact that this does nothing but negatively affect the NFL and the young bucks that think they’re ready. It just took one a$$hole to challenge the NFL… and control is something they didn’t have in this situation. The reasoning behind the rule was logical…. but at the same time it was quite vulnerable.

In my opinion... the TO ruling today has a much more lasting affect. I am shocked to hear that the NFL caved like they did. TO had no case! Oh wait, his agent claimed that he didn't receive notice about the date change.... give me a break.... he was incompetent and refused to be accountable. TO made an ingenious decision and hired Jeffrey Kessler who has a great deal of experience with the NFL. Kessler has litigated many cases dealing with the NFL including McNeil (Freeman McNeil ex Jets RB) vs. NFL, which essentially led to the establishment of free agency in the NFL. The guy is no spring chicken. But even then…. I expected the NFL to stand tall and make this idiot understand that he is not, and never will be bigger than the league. Who wins in this situation? TO…that’s it! Baltimore loses out on their supposed “answer” and a chance at any other FA WR’s because they are all signed now…. Philadelphia gets a selfish player who potentially could ruin any chemistry they have in the locker room…. The Niners front office is exposed…and all that is left is the big babbling idiot. It is just astonishing to me that they let TO (of all people) one up them like he did.

Anyway… the floodgates are now open! Any player in the future who has any kind of grievance will not hesitate to follow through with it, however minor it is. Why? Because TO and his team just exposed their weakness. The NFL has just cost themselves enormous amounts of time, money and face with this ruling.

The hilarious part about all of this is that the NFL tried to save face by making this look like a “new” 3 team deal between the Ravens, Eagles, and Niners. Just read between the lines and you will find that TO forced their hand and ultimately got exactly what he wanted.

What a sad couple of months it’s been for the NFL!

Phinehas · 03-16-2004, 07:01 PM

Evidently, you didn't see Bud Selig testifying before a Senate Subcommittee trying to explain why the MLB's drug testing is so shabby compared to other major league sports. Tagliabue and Upshaw came out of that smelling like roses.

Furthermore, I don't think you've done much digging into the TO case, or you'd know that TO was likely to win the arbitration due to a phrase in his contract (which was approved by the NFL and NFLPA) which basically says he has until March 2nd to void his contract, and that the terms of his contract will supercede any changes in dates made by the CBA. Maybe you could blame the league for allowing that sort of wording in TO's contract, but you certainly cannot make the claim that the NFL is simply caving or that TO has no case. The facts show that he had a very good case, quite apart from his being an arrogant jerk and a squeaky wheel.

--Phin

jdlea · 03-16-2004, 07:43 PM

I fell into this a few posts ago and said that the T.O. ruling was bad for football. However, I have to retract that statement. I have done a lot of thinking about this situation and I realized something: The Redskins did the same thing. We may not like to admit it, but Chad Morton set this precedent. If I can blame anyone it's the arbitrator that awarded Chad Morton to the Washington Redskins.

Don't get me wrong, I like Chad Morton as much as the next guy, but people have to understand this is a lot like what Chad Morton did last season and that's why he's a Redskin now. The Jets thought they had matched the offer, there was a clause left out and next thing we know Morton is a Redskin.

SmootSmack · 03-16-2004, 07:47 PM

Is this the same as Chad Morton? In the Morton case, it was a matter of the Jets not properly matching the offer I thought. In the Owens case, he missed the deadline. I don't know if it is the same thing

Daseal · 03-16-2004, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Is this the same as Chad Morton? In the Morton case, it was a matter of the Jets not properly matching the offer I thought. In the Owens case, he missed the deadline. I don't know if it is the same thing

Check out Phin's post. Apparently TO's contract said he had till March 2nd and that takes priority in a case such as this.

TheCDV, although I don't totally agree with your post it is an excellent and well thought out. I would definitly like to see more of your posts!

SmootSmack · 03-16-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phinehas

Evidently, you didn't see Bud Selig testifying before a Senate Subcommittee trying to explain why the MLB's drug testing is so shabby compared to other major league sports. Tagliabue and Upshaw came out of that smelling like roses.

Furthermore, I don't think you've done much digging into the TO case, or you'd know that TO was likely to win the arbitration due to a phrase in his contract (which was approved by the NFL and NFLPA) which basically says he has until March 2nd to void his contract, and that the terms of his contract will supercede any changes in dates made by the CBA. Maybe you could blame the league for allowing that sort of wording in TO's contract, but you certainly cannot make the claim that the NFL is simply caving or that TO has no case. The facts show that he had a very good case, quite apart from his being an arrogant jerk and a squeaky wheel.

--Phin

Interesting. I knew about the March 2nd part of his contract, but I wasn't aware that the terms of his contract superceded any changes in dates made by the CBA.

Phin, how'd you pick your username. Every time I see it I think Dolphins and that ain't right

offiss · 03-16-2004, 10:48 PM

That's what I was hearing last night and if that's the case then he should be allowed to file an extention and become a free agent, that is why they all back tracked and made TO happy everyone recieved some kind of compensation, but if TO stuck to his gun's the eagles probabaly wouldn't have had to give up any compensation to the 49ers, I guess they just wanted closier.

Daseal · 03-16-2004, 10:50 PM

I get that feeling every time too, Smoot. I'll get my blackjack...

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-16-2004, 11:12 PM

The worst offseason move was by the Dolphins. I don't think acquiring Boston was the best move, but I don't think it was the worst one either. If Boston stays healthy and "feels like playing," he'll give Miami the receiving threat they've needed so bad for the past several years. Chris Chambers should really shine if Boston plays well.

However, I understand that the Dolphins restructured Boston's deal. Had they not done so, they could have cut or traded him without incurring any cap hit if he didn't work out - which is a very distinct possibility. VERY bad move.

Boston, T.O., Randy Moss et al make me REALLY appreciate Coles. He's such a great player, he doesn't showboat, he doesn't complain, he's not a locker room cancer, he plays well through injuries, and he doesn't blame others for his shortcomings (of which there are very few).

A close second.....the Chargers. Why have they not done squat about their roster. I know they're trying to build a team and I don't blame them for getting rid of Boston, but why haven't they done anything to get a replacement for Boston, improve their o-line, get a decent backup to Brees (flutie is what 8,000 years old), and add some decent players to the defense?

They've got:
Drew Brees-promising 2nd rounder who turned out to bee a bust.
Doug Flutie-He's what 42?
Tim Dwight-I think Dwight is their #1 wideout and I don't know who their #2 is
A revolving-door Oline
I don't think they've got anyone playing on defense.

They've gotten rid of Boston, Wiley, Seau, and Harrison in the past two seasons and they haven't signed any noteworthy free agents.

At least the Cards are finally trying. The Chargers are definately going to be the worst team in football next season.

Daseal · 03-16-2004, 11:38 PM

They're turning into the lions. LT is Barry Sanders and the franchise is slowly getting rid of any talent but him. I think the chargers really need some O line and defense and they can go old school marty ball.

TheCDV · 03-16-2004, 11:46 PM

Posted by Phins

"Evidently, you didn't see Bud Selig testifying before a Senate Subcommittee trying to explain why the MLB's drug testing is so shabby compared to other major league sports. Tagliabue and Upshaw came out of that smelling like roses.

Furthermore, I don't think you've done much digging into the TO case, or you'd know that TO was likely to win the arbitration due to a phrase in his contract (which was approved by the NFL and NFLPA) which basically says he has until March 2nd to void his contract, and that the terms of his contract will supercede any changes in dates made by the CBA. Maybe you could blame the league for allowing that sort of wording in TO's contract, but you certainly cannot make the claim that the NFL is simply caving or that TO has no case. The facts show that he had a very good case, quite apart from his being an arrogant jerk and a squeaky wheel."

Not to take anything away from your opinion...but I was very thorough in my investigation of the situation. I am well aware of the situation and the fact that it looked like he was going to win the arbitration hearing. What you’re missing is the fact that the NFL is the one that a few weeks ago validated the fact that TO had missed the deadline. Essentially, if they had just better educated themselves on the matter.... this would not have gotten this far to begin with. Either way the NFL is showing incompetence.

Anyway...I can agree to disagree.....it was just my opinion and I was throwing out there.

SmootSmack · 03-17-2004, 12:29 AM

Ramseyfan, I think the Niners could be pretty wretched as well. They've lost T.O., Hearst, Streets, and Garcia and what did they add on offense?

AnonEmouse · 03-17-2004, 05:59 AM

But weren't the 9ers moves dicatated by the cap? AFIK the Chargers don't have cap issues like that and neither do the fin's.

IMHO I'd say the worst is the Chargers. They seem like they can't get their collective heads out of their a##es. Marty isn't a draft genius either.

I questioned the Fin's picking up Boston as soon as it was announced. They need to settle on a starting QB and build the O around him and Williams. Boston wouldn't be my first choice for a trade.

3rd place is the Eagles. They've lost 3/4 of their secondary with no names to replace them. These may pan out if the back ups are good, but I agree that TO and Kearse are big gambles.

BrudLee · 03-17-2004, 07:46 AM

Remember that the Clarett hearing is the reason for the changed date. Owens situation was extraordinary, because without the Clarett case, there is no issue. The calendar doesn't change to meet the new guidelines.

Also, because Owens's contract was signed before the current CBA went into effect, there was enough wiggle room that he had leverage to force this deal.

My final point? Because the clubs brokered this deal, the league didn't have a chance to lose this case, or suffer an appeal if they won.

Phinehas · 03-17-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Phin, how'd you pick your username. Every time I see it I think Dolphins and that ain't right. --Smootsmack

Indeed it ain't. Phinehas has been my alter-ego for many years. As I recall, I first started using it to play Wizadry on an Apple IIgs. I needed a name for my main character, and not being particularly creative, started flipping through a Bible to find a good, ancient-sounding name. Phinehas (who was the son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron, Moses' brother) seemed like a cool name and it had my initials, PES, imbedded in it. It stuck, and I've been using it ever since.

So, please put down the blackjack, Daseal...Daseal? Please? I'm not a Dolphin fan. Really. Hehehe...

Don't tell anyone (I certainly try not to), but I used to be a Bengals fan. I grew up near Cincy, though, so I have a decent excuse. It is great to see Marvin Lewis finally turning the franchise around. Even so, I'll be rooting for the 'skins when they play the Bengals later this year.

TheCDV, I understand where you are coming from, and appreciate the points you made. The league did indeed say that TO missed the deadline. Fortunately, since the clubs have hammered things out on their own, the league hasn't really been forced to look too bad regarding the earlier declaration. In any case, although I appreciate your agreeable disagreement, I still think the NFL is looking pretty good compared to MLB, with its steroid issues and glaring inequities in team buying power. Thanks for the different perspective, though.

--Phin

03-16-2004, 07:47 PM	#4
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Is this the same as Chad Morton? In the Morton case, it was a matter of the Jets not properly matching the offer I thought. In the Owens case, he missed the deadline. I don't know if it is the same thing __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-16-2004, 11:12 PM	#9
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	The worst offseason move was by the Dolphins. I don't think acquiring Boston was the best move, but I don't think it was the worst one either. If Boston stays healthy and "feels like playing," he'll give Miami the receiving threat they've needed so bad for the past several years. Chris Chambers should really shine if Boston plays well. However, I understand that the Dolphins restructured Boston's deal. Had they not done so, they could have cut or traded him without incurring any cap hit if he didn't work out - which is a very distinct possibility. VERY bad move. Boston, T.O., Randy Moss et al make me REALLY appreciate Coles. He's such a great player, he doesn't showboat, he doesn't complain, he's not a locker room cancer, he plays well through injuries, and he doesn't blame others for his shortcomings (of which there are very few). A close second.....the Chargers. Why have they not done squat about their roster. I know they're trying to build a team and I don't blame them for getting rid of Boston, but why haven't they done anything to get a replacement for Boston, improve their o-line, get a decent backup to Brees (flutie is what 8,000 years old), and add some decent players to the defense? They've got: Drew Brees-promising 2nd rounder who turned out to bee a bust. Doug Flutie-He's what 42? Tim Dwight-I think Dwight is their #1 wideout and I don't know who their #2 is A revolving-door Oline I don't think they've got anyone playing on defense. They've gotten rid of Boston, Wiley, Seau, and Harrison in the past two seasons and they haven't signed any noteworthy free agents. At least the Cards are finally trying. The Chargers are definately going to be the worst team in football next season. Last edited by Sheriff Gonna Getcha; 03-16-2004 at 11:19 PM.

03-17-2004, 12:29 AM	#12
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Ramseyfan, I think the Niners could be pretty wretched as well. They've lost T.O., Hearst, Streets, and Garcia and what did they add on offense? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-17-2004, 07:46 AM	#14
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Remember that the Clarett hearing is the reason for the changed date. Owens situation was extraordinary, because without the Clarett case, there is no issue. The calendar doesn't change to meet the new guidelines. Also, because Owens's contract was signed before the current CBA went into effect, there was enough wiggle room that he had leverage to force this deal. My final point? Because the clubs brokered this deal, the league didn't have a chance to lose this case, or suffer an appeal if they won. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

03-16-2004, 06:40 PM	#1
TheCDV Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: D.C. Posts: 7	Worst off-season thus far? The NFL? It’s very simple! The NFL! Clearly, in the last 2 months the NFL has taken a severe beating between today's TO ruling and the Maurice Clarett ruling several weeks ago. The NFL has worked diligently to separate itself from the other professional leagues... unfortunately their efforts are slowly becoming nonexistent. No doubt that it was only a matter of time before the age restrictions with regards to entering the NFL were lifted.... because the bottom line is that no organization in this country can prevent a legal adult from finding work. With that said.... it certainly does not take way from the fact that this does nothing but negatively affect the NFL and the young bucks that think they’re ready. It just took one a$$hole to challenge the NFL… and control is something they didn’t have in this situation. The reasoning behind the rule was logical…. but at the same time it was quite vulnerable. In my opinion... the TO ruling today has a much more lasting affect. I am shocked to hear that the NFL caved like they did. TO had no case! Oh wait, his agent claimed that he didn't receive notice about the date change.... give me a break.... he was incompetent and refused to be accountable. TO made an ingenious decision and hired Jeffrey Kessler who has a great deal of experience with the NFL. Kessler has litigated many cases dealing with the NFL including McNeil (Freeman McNeil ex Jets RB) vs. NFL, which essentially led to the establishment of free agency in the NFL. The guy is no spring chicken. But even then…. I expected the NFL to stand tall and make this idiot understand that he is not, and never will be bigger than the league. Who wins in this situation? TO…that’s it! Baltimore loses out on their supposed “answer” and a chance at any other FA WR’s because they are all signed now…. Philadelphia gets a selfish player who potentially could ruin any chemistry they have in the locker room…. The Niners front office is exposed…and all that is left is the big babbling idiot. It is just astonishing to me that they let TO (of all people) one up them like he did. Anyway… the floodgates are now open! Any player in the future who has any kind of grievance will not hesitate to follow through with it, however minor it is. Why? Because TO and his team just exposed their weakness. The NFL has just cost themselves enormous amounts of time, money and face with this ruling. The hilarious part about all of this is that the NFL tried to save face by making this look like a “new” 3 team deal between the Ravens, Eagles, and Niners. Just read between the lines and you will find that TO forced their hand and ultimately got exactly what he wanted. What a sad couple of months it’s been for the NFL!

03-16-2004, 07:01 PM	#2
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	Evidently, you didn't see Bud Selig testifying before a Senate Subcommittee trying to explain why the MLB's drug testing is so shabby compared to other major league sports. Tagliabue and Upshaw came out of that smelling like roses. Furthermore, I don't think you've done much digging into the TO case, or you'd know that TO was likely to win the arbitration due to a phrase in his contract (which was approved by the NFL and NFLPA) which basically says he has until March 2nd to void his contract, and that the terms of his contract will supercede any changes in dates made by the CBA. Maybe you could blame the league for allowing that sort of wording in TO's contract, but you certainly cannot make the claim that the NFL is simply caving or that TO has no case. The facts show that he had a very good case, quite apart from his being an arrogant jerk and a squeaky wheel. --Phin

03-16-2004, 07:43 PM	#3
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	I fell into this a few posts ago and said that the T.O. ruling was bad for football. However, I have to retract that statement. I have done a lot of thinking about this situation and I realized something: The Redskins did the same thing. We may not like to admit it, but Chad Morton set this precedent. If I can blame anyone it's the arbitrator that awarded Chad Morton to the Washington Redskins. Don't get me wrong, I like Chad Morton as much as the next guy, but people have to understand this is a lot like what Chad Morton did last season and that's why he's a Redskin now. The Jets thought they had matched the offer, there was a clause left out and next thing we know Morton is a Redskin.

03-16-2004, 10:48 PM	#7
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	That's what I was hearing last night and if that's the case then he should be allowed to file an extention and become a free agent, that is why they all back tracked and made TO happy everyone recieved some kind of compensation, but if TO stuck to his gun's the eagles probabaly wouldn't have had to give up any compensation to the 49ers, I guess they just wanted closier.

03-16-2004, 10:50 PM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I get that feeling every time too, Smoot. I'll get my blackjack...

03-16-2004, 11:38 PM	#10
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	They're turning into the lions. LT is Barry Sanders and the franchise is slowly getting rid of any talent but him. I think the chargers really need some O line and defense and they can go old school marty ball.

03-16-2004, 11:46 PM	#11
TheCDV Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: D.C. Posts: 7	Posted by Phins "Evidently, you didn't see Bud Selig testifying before a Senate Subcommittee trying to explain why the MLB's drug testing is so shabby compared to other major league sports. Tagliabue and Upshaw came out of that smelling like roses. Furthermore, I don't think you've done much digging into the TO case, or you'd know that TO was likely to win the arbitration due to a phrase in his contract (which was approved by the NFL and NFLPA) which basically says he has until March 2nd to void his contract, and that the terms of his contract will supercede any changes in dates made by the CBA. Maybe you could blame the league for allowing that sort of wording in TO's contract, but you certainly cannot make the claim that the NFL is simply caving or that TO has no case. The facts show that he had a very good case, quite apart from his being an arrogant jerk and a squeaky wheel." Not to take anything away from your opinion...but I was very thorough in my investigation of the situation. I am well aware of the situation and the fact that it looked like he was going to win the arbitration hearing. What you’re missing is the fact that the NFL is the one that a few weeks ago validated the fact that TO had missed the deadline. Essentially, if they had just better educated themselves on the matter.... this would not have gotten this far to begin with. Either way the NFL is showing incompetence. Anyway...I can agree to disagree.....it was just my opinion and I was throwing out there.

03-17-2004, 05:59 AM	#13
AnonEmouse The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Age: 58 Posts: 2,499	But weren't the 9ers moves dicatated by the cap? AFIK the Chargers don't have cap issues like that and neither do the fin's. IMHO I'd say the worst is the Chargers. They seem like they can't get their collective heads out of their a##es. Marty isn't a draft genius either. I questioned the Fin's picking up Boston as soon as it was announced. They need to settle on a starting QB and build the O around him and Williams. Boston wouldn't be my first choice for a trade. 3rd place is the Eagles. They've lost 3/4 of their secondary with no names to replace them. These may pan out if the back ups are good, but I agree that TO and Kearse are big gambles.

Worst off-season thus far? The NFL?

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