Gotta luv ref's

Fan4Life · 11-15-2005, 07:05 AM

Tuesday, November 15, 2005; Page E01

After reviewing replays of several controversial calls from Sunday's 36-35 loss to Tampa Bay, Washington Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday that officials erred in several instances, including on the Buccaneers' game-winning, two-point conversion in the final minute of play. Gibbs said he planned to submit video from the play that indicates Tampa Bay fullback Mike Alstott had not crossed the goal line, as well as several other clips, to NFL officials.

Sammy Baugh Fan · 11-15-2005, 08:35 AM

Ya can't count on a part-timer.

I hate the NFL's System for Officiating

peace

Hog1 · 11-15-2005, 08:46 AM

I normally don't put much stock in this type of thing, but I must say, there were numerous calls that went against us that were game killers. Listening to the local sports shows in SW Florida yesterday, much of the talk, the officiating in the Skins, TB game. Even though these guys are HUGE TB fans, even THEY said Alstot did NOT make the end zone-CLEARLY. They also pointed out that the touchdown signal was not given until the ref crawled through the pile indicating they did not know either. Unfortunately (for us), that is not accurate. The other obvious biggie was the alleged "force out" on the sidelines of whatever TB reciever. BAD DEAL

skins052bgr8 · 11-15-2005, 09:08 AM

The Refs are getting caught up in the emotion of the game and making some questionable calls many times like the end in favor of the home team or plays that are momentum changing with some questionable penalties. The NFL is sending out all kinds of fines for players doing wrong whether it be BS uniform violations, coaches questining those calls. When are they going to start fining these refs for clear missed calls after replay such as Alstot. They need to take these down by contact rulings and shove outs away from the refs and let instant replay take care of it. Many times these our clearly the wrong calls, but due to the ref making the call on the field whatever motivation or dictating factor they prevent the right call from being made at replay. Why would a ref even call a down by contact or a shove out just give what you think catch or blow the whistle after he clearly hits the ground and the ball is not flopping around.

Fan4Life · 11-15-2005, 09:24 AM

Yea that so called push out call? what a crock. his foot was outta bounds when he caught the ball and the skin defender barely had a hand on him. i know in nascar they have taken a win away for an infraction or a mistake made by the high ups. has that ever happened in the history of the nfl? I doubt if it has, just curious.

MTK · 11-15-2005, 09:52 AM

It's funny because they rarely make that push out call, and you usually see it when a WR is in the air and gets shoved. It was a pretty lame call, worse than the Alstott one IMO, at least that one was close, the push out was just a completely blown call.

Hog1 · 11-15-2005, 10:33 AM

I guess if there is something positive about it. The officiating staff working a Skins game KNOWS,JOE will call them on that lame stuff. You know they DON'T like being held up in that knd of light. Mybe, they will be reluctant to make questionable calls in the future on us.

LadyT · 11-15-2005, 10:36 AM

There are bad calls in almost every game and against both teams. Luckily, most times they don't decide the game's outcome. In this game, they did and, unfortunately, we have only ourselves to blame. We had 36 points on the board and should never have been in the position where a 2-point coversion could cost us the game.

The players know that bad calls will happen. Knowing that, they also know that allowing the opponent to score so many points on you puts you in the position where a bad call can mean everything.

I didn't like many of the calls, but I refuse to blame the refs for what happened on Sunday. You should win 100% of the games where you put up 36 points.

HTTR · 11-15-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyT

You should win 100% of the games where you put up 36 points.

Unfortunately, we only scored 35.

How bad does a call have to be before you throw a fit? I have no problem with refs making the best calls they can in the heat of the action. But the whole purpose of stopping games to review slow motion camera angles is to IMPROVE the calls that were made on the field (upheld or not). If you have solid evidence that (1) a player was not pushed out, and (2) a ball carrier's elbow came down short of the goal line, HAVE THE COURAGE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CALL (the rule about shove-outs not being reviewable is stupid).

Tampa Bay fans should be philosophical today about "we shouldn't have let the game come down to one call by the refs."

MTK · 11-15-2005, 10:56 AM

It's true that you can't blame the refs entirely, but you can't say the bad calls weren't a factor.

#56fanatic · 11-15-2005, 11:11 AM

although there were a couple of really bad calls, I am in belief that when you put up 35 points against a #1 defense, and a QB making his 3rd NFL start, the game should not have even been close. Even though we gave up 3 or 4 turnovers, we still should have won by two TDs. I am putting blame on our defensive scheme. When we couldn't get pressure early in the game, and were getting beat down field time and time, we have to make adjustments to the play calling. especially at the end of the game. We are putting our 2nd string safety and rookie CB on islands out there and they were getting beat. GW has to swallow some of that ego( I can put anyone in here and win with MY scheme). We saw how it worked with Holdman and LaVar, and it showed up again with Taylor being out. Griffin being out also hurt our pass rush, and trying to make up for that by sending our best cover corner I think is not very smart. I know the guy is in the NFL and is a very good D coach, but I just think sometimes he needs to scale back some of the aggresive playcalling when its obviously not working. Late in the game, how can you risk a receiver getting deeper than your safeties, thats just unacceptable defense.

djnemo65 · 11-15-2005, 11:21 AM

My question is this: why have a replay system if the refs are just gonna call whatever the hell they want regardless of the tape. It seems like they are so beholden to this "irrefutable visual proof" standard that a call can't be close for them to reverse it. If there is even the slightest tinge of doubt they will defer to the ruling on the field. I mean, yeah the Alstott play was really really close - but he didn't get in! That's what the tape shows. But because I guess its not a slamdunk they don't reverse it. You see this in college too. I have been a strong proponent of replay in both the pros and college, but if refs are going to selectively interpret what they see on the tape, maybe we need to reconsider the entire system.

djnemo65 · 11-15-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

although there were a couple of really bad calls, I am in belief that when you put up 35 points against a #1 defense, and a QB making his 3rd NFL start, the game should not have even been close. Even though we gave up 3 or 4 turnovers, we still should have won by two TDs. I am putting blame on our defensive scheme. When we couldn't get pressure early in the game, and were getting beat down field time and time, we have to make adjustments to the play calling. especially at the end of the game. We are putting our 2nd string safety and rookie CB on islands out there and they were getting beat. GW has to swallow some of that ego( I can put anyone in here and win with MY scheme). We saw how it worked with Holdman and LaVar, and it showed up again with Taylor being out. Griffin being out also hurt our pass rush, and trying to make up for that by sending our best cover corner I think is not very smart. I know the guy is in the NFL and is a very good D coach, but I just think sometimes he needs to scale back some of the aggresive playcalling when its obviously not working. Late in the game, how can you risk a receiver getting deeper than your safeties, thats just unacceptable defense.

See, I look at this situation a little bit different. Everything you say is right, it shouldn't have been close. But in today's NFL the other team's gonna find a way to make it close more often than not. Give TB some credit for making great plays down the stretch. But let's give our team some credit too.

I look at this way: two good playoff caliber teams battling for a poststeason slot went all the way down to the wire and the Redskins won, but the refs intervened and gave the game to the hometeam. It was close, but we won.

jdlea · 11-15-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It's true that you can't blame the refs entirely, but you can't say the bad calls weren't a factor.

Exactly Matty. The calls were a factor in the game and were a main factor in deciding the game. However, the Bucs had a starter who was 1-3 for his career as a starter going up against what was supposed to be a top defense. They moved the ball almost at will against the #1 D in the league and found a way to lose because they left the door open and dug a hole early. If not for the turnovers in the first half this game doesn't come down to a 2 point conversion play. If not for poor defense we probably blow Tampa out. This is a game that, on paper, the Skins should have dominated and they let it come down to the wire. They left the door open and the Bucs took advantage, something the Skins didn't do until the second half. This game should have never been this close and to blame the refs 100% would be an act of cowardice.

VTSkins897 · 11-15-2005, 12:00 PM

ill tell you what i hated. it took the refs like 2 minutes to decide if cadillac actually fumbled the ball when it seemed pretty damn obvious he did. the ref didn't even look at the alstott play for but like 30 secs it seemed. not nearly as long as the fumble. ill bet the ref didnt even see his elbow hitting the ground before the goal line. seems kind of important on a play like that.

and on redskins.com gibbs was saying how he didnt htink that they were offsides on the blocked PAT. i mean it seemed sorta blatent at first that they were offsides but when i saw it again it really was kind of close.

it was a real real real crappy game to lose thats for sure. i think it might be that the redskins will have to win the division in order to make the playoffs this year. doable at least.

11-15-2005, 08:35 AM	#2
Sammy Baugh Fan Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Northern Virginia, Woodbridge Age: 62 Posts: 2,507	Re: Gotta luv ref's Ya can't count on a part-timer. I hate the NFL's System for Officiating peace __________________ Check out Mike Hedrick - The Next Food Network Star. Please Click and give me a Thumbs Up and Positive Comment. Thanks

11-15-2005, 08:46 AM	#3
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Gotta luv ref's I normally don't put much stock in this type of thing, but I must say, there were numerous calls that went against us that were game killers. Listening to the local sports shows in SW Florida yesterday, much of the talk, the officiating in the Skins, TB game. Even though these guys are HUGE TB fans, even THEY said Alstot did NOT make the end zone-CLEARLY. They also pointed out that the touchdown signal was not given until the ref crawled through the pile indicating they did not know either. Unfortunately (for us), that is not accurate. The other obvious biggie was the alleged "force out" on the sidelines of whatever TB reciever. BAD DEAL __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

11-15-2005, 09:08 AM	#4
skins052bgr8 Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Richmond, Va. Age: 49 Posts: 288	Re: Gotta luv ref's The Refs are getting caught up in the emotion of the game and making some questionable calls many times like the end in favor of the home team or plays that are momentum changing with some questionable penalties. The NFL is sending out all kinds of fines for players doing wrong whether it be BS uniform violations, coaches questining those calls. When are they going to start fining these refs for clear missed calls after replay such as Alstot. They need to take these down by contact rulings and shove outs away from the refs and let instant replay take care of it. Many times these our clearly the wrong calls, but due to the ref making the call on the field whatever motivation or dictating factor they prevent the right call from being made at replay. Why would a ref even call a down by contact or a shove out just give what you think catch or blow the whistle after he clearly hits the ground and the ball is not flopping around.

11-15-2005, 09:52 AM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Gotta luv ref's It's funny because they rarely make that push out call, and you usually see it when a WR is in the air and gets shoved. It was a pretty lame call, worse than the Alstott one IMO, at least that one was close, the push out was just a completely blown call.

11-15-2005, 10:33 AM	#7
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Gotta luv ref's I guess if there is something positive about it. The officiating staff working a Skins game KNOWS,JOE will call them on that lame stuff. You know they DON'T like being held up in that knd of light. Mybe, they will be reluctant to make questionable calls in the future on us. __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

11-15-2005, 07:05 AM	#1
Fan4Life Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 57 Posts: 67	Gotta luv ref's Tuesday, November 15, 2005; Page E01 After reviewing replays of several controversial calls from Sunday's 36-35 loss to Tampa Bay, Washington Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday that officials erred in several instances, including on the Buccaneers' game-winning, two-point conversion in the final minute of play. Gibbs said he planned to submit video from the play that indicates Tampa Bay fullback Mike Alstott had not crossed the goal line, as well as several other clips, to NFL officials.

11-15-2005, 09:24 AM	#5
Fan4Life Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 57 Posts: 67	Re: Gotta luv ref's Yea that so called push out call? what a crock. his foot was outta bounds when he caught the ball and the skin defender barely had a hand on him. i know in nascar they have taken a win away for an infraction or a mistake made by the high ups. has that ever happened in the history of the nfl? I doubt if it has, just curious.

11-15-2005, 10:36 AM	#8
LadyT Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 219	Re: Gotta luv ref's There are bad calls in almost every game and against both teams. Luckily, most times they don't decide the game's outcome. In this game, they did and, unfortunately, we have only ourselves to blame. We had 36 points on the board and should never have been in the position where a 2-point coversion could cost us the game. The players know that bad calls will happen. Knowing that, they also know that allowing the opponent to score so many points on you puts you in the position where a bad call can mean everything. I didn't like many of the calls, but I refuse to blame the refs for what happened on Sunday. You should win 100% of the games where you put up 36 points.

11-15-2005, 10:56 AM	#10
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Gotta luv ref's It's true that you can't blame the refs entirely, but you can't say the bad calls weren't a factor.

11-15-2005, 11:11 AM	#11
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gotta luv ref's although there were a couple of really bad calls, I am in belief that when you put up 35 points against a #1 defense, and a QB making his 3rd NFL start, the game should not have even been close. Even though we gave up 3 or 4 turnovers, we still should have won by two TDs. I am putting blame on our defensive scheme. When we couldn't get pressure early in the game, and were getting beat down field time and time, we have to make adjustments to the play calling. especially at the end of the game. We are putting our 2nd string safety and rookie CB on islands out there and they were getting beat. GW has to swallow some of that ego( I can put anyone in here and win with MY scheme). We saw how it worked with Holdman and LaVar, and it showed up again with Taylor being out. Griffin being out also hurt our pass rush, and trying to make up for that by sending our best cover corner I think is not very smart. I know the guy is in the NFL and is a very good D coach, but I just think sometimes he needs to scale back some of the aggresive playcalling when its obviously not working. Late in the game, how can you risk a receiver getting deeper than your safeties, thats just unacceptable defense.

11-15-2005, 11:21 AM	#12
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: Gotta luv ref's My question is this: why have a replay system if the refs are just gonna call whatever the hell they want regardless of the tape. It seems like they are so beholden to this "irrefutable visual proof" standard that a call can't be close for them to reverse it. If there is even the slightest tinge of doubt they will defer to the ruling on the field. I mean, yeah the Alstott play was really really close - but he didn't get in! That's what the tape shows. But because I guess its not a slamdunk they don't reverse it. You see this in college too. I have been a strong proponent of replay in both the pros and college, but if refs are going to selectively interpret what they see on the tape, maybe we need to reconsider the entire system.

11-15-2005, 12:00 PM	#15
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 41 Posts: 890	Re: Gotta luv ref's ill tell you what i hated. it took the refs like 2 minutes to decide if cadillac actually fumbled the ball when it seemed pretty damn obvious he did. the ref didn't even look at the alstott play for but like 30 secs it seemed. not nearly as long as the fumble. ill bet the ref didnt even see his elbow hitting the ground before the goal line. seems kind of important on a play like that. and on redskins.com gibbs was saying how he didnt htink that they were offsides on the blocked PAT. i mean it seemed sorta blatent at first that they were offsides but when i saw it again it really was kind of close. it was a real real real crappy game to lose thats for sure. i think it might be that the redskins will have to win the division in order to make the playoffs this year. doable at least.

Gotta luv ref's

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