"The Trade!"

#56fanatic · 11-18-2005, 09:28 AM

If we had to do it all over again, do we trade Champ and a 2nd pick for Portis, or do we keep Champ, have Betts as the #1 guy, or pick up a free agent or use the 2nd round pick for a RB. Looking at the stats, there isn't much of a difference, Portis avg is 4.6 and Betts is 4.1. Betts is comparable to Steven Davis and when he was given a shot we all know what he did. I like Portis, dont get me wrong. I sometimes catch myself wondering what kind of team would we be had Champ stayed here. God knows we could have used him the last few weeks in pass coverage!

EternalEnigma21 · 11-18-2005, 09:42 AM

champ is a bitch. I hate that guy, and he's the absolute most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

#56fanatic · 11-18-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canthetuna

champ is a bitch. I hate that guy, and he's the absolute most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

Somebody is SALTY!!

TheMalcolmConnection · 11-18-2005, 09:45 AM

Champ is fine but honestly he's been VERY streaky lately. He's been making Pro Bowls on previous reputation alone.

Schneed10 · 11-18-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

If we had to do it all over again, do we trade Champ and a 2nd pick for Portis, or do we keep Champ, have Betts as the #1 guy, or pick up a free agent or use the 2nd round pick for a RB. Looking at the stats, there isn't much of a difference, Portis avg is 4.6 and Betts is 4.1. Betts is comparable to Steven Davis and when he was given a shot we all know what he did. I like Portis, dont get me wrong. I sometimes catch myself wondering what kind of team would we be had Champ stayed here. God knows we could have used him the last few weeks in pass coverage!

The piece of this puzzle that often gets forgotten is the salary cap ramifications of keeping Bailey. You'll recall, the guy was going to count like 8-10 million against our cap because he was labeled with the franchise tag. That was a cap hit that would put the team in dire straits that year. So the options were to trade Bailey away or sign him to a long-term deal. Thing is, the long-term deal Bailey wanted amounted to like $8 million a year. Now, that first year the cap hit probably would have only been $5 or $6 million or so. But it would have grown astronomically. I believe the Redskins were offering like $55 million over 8 years, and he ended up getting like $65 million or something from the Broncos.

You can't just analyze the trade in a vacuum because there are other circumstances surrounding it. Because we got rid of Bailey and signed Portis to a much more cap-friendly contract, we were able to sign Shawn Springs for 5 years, 30 million.

If you're just looking at the Bailey and a 2nd rounder for Portis piece in a vacuum, then I do think we would have been better off keeping Champ. But the trade didn't exist in a vacuum, Bailey's contract demands would have had long-term ramifications to the team. We wouldn't have Shawn Springs, and we never would have been able to afford the cap hit by trading L Coles, which as we all know brought us Santana Moss. That one worked out pretty well.

Deals like the Bailey/Portis trade have major ripple effects for years. The moves we were able to make this year and the moves we'll make next year are affected. In the end, the team is much better off in the long-haul having made the trade.

EternalEnigma21 · 11-18-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Champ is fine but honestly he's been VERY streaky lately. He's been making Pro Bowls on previous reputation alone.

Thats my point. he's a good corner, but when people talk about him they act like hes the stand alone greatest corner of all time. It irks me that he gets beaten deep constantly, and is not a physical player... and all of the media is all over this guy's jock.

BrudLee · 11-18-2005, 10:01 AM

Champ did not want to be here. You can't keep a player who doesn't want to be here.

#56fanatic · 11-18-2005, 10:18 AM

I got the feeling that he didn't want to be here either. But alot of that is because of the constant roster overhaul and coaching changes. I do believe with the current regime he would have benefited from Greg Williams defensive scheme and made us a better defense. Smoot may have been more inclined to stay as well. I do believe with Champ and Smoot, Taylor and Clark or Bowen we would have had one of the best secondarys in recent memory. Nothing agianst Springs, who since being in Washington, has had probably the best year and half seasons since his 2nd and 3rd years in the league. The NFC east use to be, stop the run, smash people in the mouth and you win most of the games. But recently the NFC east teams have been more about the passing game and points than running the ball and winning with D. Giants, Dallas, and Philly all have good passing attacks now. Philly obviously is hurting right now, but if TO was playing and Donavan healthy they were pretty hard to stop.

cpayne5 · 11-18-2005, 10:19 AM

If you go back and look at this trade, what would we have at this point?

We'd have (an unhappy) CBailey, LBetts, CRogers, & a 2nd rounder. Instead we have SSprings, LBetts, CRogers, & CPortis. We got Springs via free agency which filled the void left by Bailey, so in the end, we basically traded a 2nd rounder for Portis. Denver may have gotten Bailey & that 2nd round pick, but we used FA to really suplement the deal to our advantage.

Kope · 11-18-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpayne5

If you go back and look at this trade, what would we have at this point?

We'd have (an unhappy) CBailey, LBetts, CRogers, & a 2nd rounder. Instead we have SSprings, LBetts, CRogers, & CPortis. We got Springs via free agency which filled the void left by Bailey, so in the end, we basically traded a 2nd rounder for Portis. Denver may have gotten Bailey & that 2nd round pick, but we used FA to really suplement the deal to our advantage.

You never know- it might have been:

A happy (Gibbs magic) Bailey, Springs (instead of Smoot) CRogers, and a 2nd rounder (DE?) w/ Betts running (half the year due to injuries). I like what we have now.

dmek25 · 11-18-2005, 11:30 AM

i like what we have now,also.i agree that champ bailey is big time over rated.did anyone see what t.o. did to him?dont come back with "he was playing hurt"to me,thats a convienent excuse.but then again,i never liked him when he was here

celts32 · 11-18-2005, 11:34 AM

I like Portis, but I said it then and I still feel that they gave up way to much for him. And that was proven correct this last offseason when Shawn Alexander and Edge who are both better than CP were both available for less than a 1st round pick. I don't love Bailey anymore either...I would have just taken a draft pick for him instead.

The skins jumped to quick to fill the RB slot when Gibbs returned. Even though we all like portis, you have to admit that Alexander or Edge would be a much better fit for the Gibbs running game. They have had to tweak their running plays to suit Portis and he still does better with the outside running plays...whereas Alexander looks to me like he was born to run the counter trey...

Big C · 11-18-2005, 11:51 AM

it was either lose bailey, have him here unhappy, or trade. id take the trade.

#56fanatic · 11-18-2005, 12:17 PM

I like Portis too. I think he brings alot more to our team other than just running the ball. However, I do believe Shawn Alexander or E James would have been better in running our offense. Both can catch out of the back field, like Portis, but they are tougher runners inside the tackles. Plus they could run the ball more effectively inside the 10. Plus we may have been able to use our 1st round pick on a DE( demarcus ware, spears) and used the 2nd rounder on a corner. Although they may not have been as good as Rogers, but definately would have been decent enough to play nickel.

That Guy · 11-18-2005, 12:26 PM

this thing comes up every other month :P tired.

bailey wasn't going to stay here, springs played better than he did last year at under half the price. We could definately use better corner play right now, but getting rolle or dyson (both were good value) or even law would have been better than wasting a draft pick that could have gone to another position (DE) which weren't available in free agency. Corners have bad break in periods, just like WRs or QBs... DEs also tend to take time to ramp up, but this class has been pretty good early. I think the best corners from this draft came from the 3rd round anyways (as of their performances so far). Darrent williams (broncos) has played the best out of all of them.

11-18-2005, 09:42 AM	#2
EternalEnigma21 Assistant Regional Mod Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Carbondale CO Age: 44 Posts: 2,958	Re: "The Trade!" champ is a bitch. I hate that guy, and he's the absolute most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

11-18-2005, 09:45 AM	#4
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	Re: "The Trade!" Champ is fine but honestly he's been VERY streaky lately. He's been making Pro Bowls on previous reputation alone. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

11-18-2005, 10:01 AM	#7
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: "The Trade!" Champ did not want to be here. You can't keep a player who doesn't want to be here. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

11-18-2005, 10:18 AM	#8
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: "The Trade!" I got the feeling that he didn't want to be here either. But alot of that is because of the constant roster overhaul and coaching changes. I do believe with the current regime he would have benefited from Greg Williams defensive scheme and made us a better defense. Smoot may have been more inclined to stay as well. I do believe with Champ and Smoot, Taylor and Clark or Bowen we would have had one of the best secondarys in recent memory. Nothing agianst Springs, who since being in Washington, has had probably the best year and half seasons since his 2nd and 3rd years in the league. The NFC east use to be, stop the run, smash people in the mouth and you win most of the games. But recently the NFC east teams have been more about the passing game and points than running the ball and winning with D. Giants, Dallas, and Philly all have good passing attacks now. Philly obviously is hurting right now, but if TO was playing and Donavan healthy they were pretty hard to stop.

11-18-2005, 10:19 AM	#9
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Re: "The Trade!" If you go back and look at this trade, what would we have at this point? We'd have (an unhappy) CBailey, LBetts, CRogers, & a 2nd rounder. Instead we have SSprings, LBetts, CRogers, & CPortis. We got Springs via free agency which filled the void left by Bailey, so in the end, we basically traded a 2nd rounder for Portis. Denver may have gotten Bailey & that 2nd round pick, but we used FA to really suplement the deal to our advantage. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

11-18-2005, 09:28 AM	#1
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	"The Trade!" If we had to do it all over again, do we trade Champ and a 2nd pick for Portis, or do we keep Champ, have Betts as the #1 guy, or pick up a free agent or use the 2nd round pick for a RB. Looking at the stats, there isn't much of a difference, Portis avg is 4.6 and Betts is 4.1. Betts is comparable to Steven Davis and when he was given a shot we all know what he did. I like Portis, dont get me wrong. I sometimes catch myself wondering what kind of team would we be had Champ stayed here. God knows we could have used him the last few weeks in pass coverage!

11-18-2005, 11:30 AM	#11
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: "The Trade!" i like what we have now,also.i agree that champ bailey is big time over rated.did anyone see what t.o. did to him?dont come back with "he was playing hurt"to me,thats a convienent excuse.but then again,i never liked him when he was here

11-18-2005, 11:34 AM	#12
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	Re: "The Trade!" I like Portis, but I said it then and I still feel that they gave up way to much for him. And that was proven correct this last offseason when Shawn Alexander and Edge who are both better than CP were both available for less than a 1st round pick. I don't love Bailey anymore either...I would have just taken a draft pick for him instead. The skins jumped to quick to fill the RB slot when Gibbs returned. Even though we all like portis, you have to admit that Alexander or Edge would be a much better fit for the Gibbs running game. They have had to tweak their running plays to suit Portis and he still does better with the outside running plays...whereas Alexander looks to me like he was born to run the counter trey... __________________ Section 116 Row 19 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” www.facebook.com/HackettstownBeerClub

11-18-2005, 11:51 AM	#13
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,453	Re: "The Trade!" it was either lose bailey, have him here unhappy, or trade. id take the trade. __________________ "I don't care what nobody say I'm a be me, stay hood stay real, cause I'm out here grindin'" -Joe Gibbs

11-18-2005, 12:17 PM	#14
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: "The Trade!" I like Portis too. I think he brings alot more to our team other than just running the ball. However, I do believe Shawn Alexander or E James would have been better in running our offense. Both can catch out of the back field, like Portis, but they are tougher runners inside the tackles. Plus they could run the ball more effectively inside the 10. Plus we may have been able to use our 1st round pick on a DE( demarcus ware, spears) and used the 2nd rounder on a corner. Although they may not have been as good as Rogers, but definately would have been decent enough to play nickel.

11-18-2005, 12:26 PM	#15
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: "The Trade!" this thing comes up every other month :P tired. bailey wasn't going to stay here, springs played better than he did last year at under half the price. We could definately use better corner play right now, but getting rolle or dyson (both were good value) or even law would have been better than wasting a draft pick that could have gone to another position (DE) which weren't available in free agency. Corners have bad break in periods, just like WRs or QBs... DEs also tend to take time to ramp up, but this class has been pretty good early. I think the best corners from this draft came from the 3rd round anyways (as of their performances so far). Darrent williams (broncos) has played the best out of all of them.

"The Trade!"

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