"The Trade!"

dblanch66 · 11-18-2005, 12:31 PM

If, if, if... If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

ST21 · 11-18-2005, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canthetuna

champ is a bitch. I hate that guy, and he's the absolute most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

No he's not...when the NFL change the rules for not checking after 5 yards it made it hard on all DB's....no no...Charles Woodson is the most overrated in the NFL.....all time...come dude

SmootSmack · 11-18-2005, 02:21 PM

If we had Betts playing the role of Portis, aka starting back, then who would play Betts' current role? I don't think we should underestimate or undervalue the importance of having not one but two backs who could start for many, if not all, teams.

TheMalcolmConnection · 11-18-2005, 03:16 PM

Sultan McCullough! Duh.

Riggo44 · 11-18-2005, 03:38 PM

I still like the trade. If we didn't trade Champ. We wouldn't get those "Dallor Bill ,4 qtrs,10 dimes,20 nickels" press conferences ever thurs.

Who could stand that?

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-18-2005, 07:46 PM

To be honest, I think Shawn Springs is a better corner than Bailey. Springs virtually shut down T.O. twice last year. Bailey was getting torched by Amani Toomer, Joey Galloway, Antonio Bryant, and just about everyone else. Plus, Springs has a better attitude and wanted a LOT less money.

While I would have preferred a Portis-Bailey straight-up trade, I think it was a good move.

offiss · 11-19-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I like Portis, but I said it then and I still feel that they gave up way to much for him. And that was proven correct this last offseason when Shawn Alexander and Edge who are both better than CP were both available for less than a 1st round pick. I don't love Bailey anymore either...I would have just taken a draft pick for him instead.

The skins jumped to quick to fill the RB slot when Gibbs returned. Even though we all like portis, you have to admit that Alexander or Edge would be a much better fit for the Gibbs running game. They have had to tweak their running plays to suit Portis and he still does better with the outside running plays...whereas Alexander looks to me like he was born to run the counter trey...

Agreed, at the time if we were trading for a back I wanted Alexander as well, he came cheaper than Portis and is a better back, as well as a better fit for Gibbs system.

Although I would have rathered traded off Bailey for picks and taken either S.Jackson, or Jones from Detroit, and still had more picks left over for other needs, as it sits the the trade with Portis and Bailey could go down as the most overated deal in history.

And you are correct on Alexander's running style he is born to run the trey. Nice job Celt's!

SmootSmack · 11-19-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Agreed, at the time if we were trading for a back I wanted Alexander as well, he came cheaper than Portis and is a better back, as well as a better fit for Gibbs system.

Although I would have rathered traded off Bailey for picks and taken either S.Jackson, or Jones from Detroit, and still had more picks left over for other needs, as it sits the the trade with Portis and Bailey could go down as the most overated deal in history.

And you are correct on Alexander's running style he is born to run the trey. Nice job Celt's!

Yeah, you didn't think Portis would fit in Gibbs' system? Why's that?

Actually, the guy I kind of like is the one we'll be facing tomorrow-Lamont Jordan. But I'm quite happy with Portis on our team

Master4Caster · 11-19-2005, 08:14 PM

I like the thread. A couple of points:

The Skins were not going to keep Bailey. Both, Bailey's unhappiness with the team environment and the salary cap meant we were going to lose him. The question was do we release him and get nothing, or go for the best available option?
I don't buy that Edgerrin James or Shawn Alexander were available. Yes, they were at the end of their contracts, but I do not believe their teams had any intention of losing them. Most of that chatter about them being available "cheap" was posturing.
Clinton Portis was not happy in Denver. Match that with Mike Shanahan's view of RBs as interchangeable, along with the Bronco's crying need for a corner who could single-cover and you have the ingredients for a deal. Portis was the best available rusher at the time. This was a good deal for both sides. (actually Denver's draft choice loses value as the Redskins' record improves)
Gibbs does not use CP the way Denver did. He uses him like Riggo or Earnest Byner -- power thru the line. Edgerrin James excells at that, but he was not really available.

Portis excells at cut backs and bouncing outside the line. He added weight, worked the offseason, came to camp and blocks effectively - everything the coaches ask of him. The running game issue is not with Portis. I suspect Shaun Alexander would get the same result if used the same way.

And why did we need a back in the first #@^% place? Because a certain "inexpercienced" owner hired a genius college coach who had no skill evaluating NFL talent and whose offensive scheme had no use for a power rusher. How does Portis compare to Trung Canidate? That's the comparison to make.

What could Gibbs have done with Stephen Davis? Even though he's aging, if Davis were on the roster, I think Gibbs uses the Bailey trade to fill another hole.

LongTimeSkinsFan · 11-19-2005, 08:37 PM

I'll just weigh in briefly on this discussion because it's been hashed and rehashed so much. Just like to make a few points here...

1. I don't think Champ is the savior Shanahan thought he would be. He is a good corner and good at forcing the run, but I don't consider him a 'shut-down' corner. He needs help over top for coverage too often and gets toasted on a regular basis.

2. Portis was a great cutback runner in Denver and as witnessed against the Bucs, he's still got the cutback quickness and speed. I think Portis has improved as a football player since being part of the Gibbs system because it has demanded him to be more to the team. He's responded to the challenge and is a much better blocker and stronger runner as a result.

That Guy · 11-20-2005, 06:06 AM

last year portis couldn't see blocks and ended up running into his linemen a lot, this year he's been much better waiting the two tenths of a second or whatever it is to get better blocking... we still have trouble up the gut when everyone knows we're running, but portis isn't a 260 bowling ball, so i'm not sure we can expect that of him as well as great outside speed...

djnemo65 · 11-20-2005, 10:40 AM

Talk about a topic that just won't die. Why don't we just take a vote and be done with it once and for all?

That Guy · 11-20-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Talk about a topic that just won't die. Why don't we just take a vote and be done with it once and for all?

done that twice now i think. Its new people that missed the old thread and started a new one... over and over and over and over.

Gmanc711 · 11-20-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

To be honest, I think Shawn Springs is a better corner than Bailey. Springs virtually shut down T.O. twice last year. Bailey was getting torched by Amani Toomer, Joey Galloway, Antonio Bryant, and just about everyone else. Plus, Springs has a better attitude and wanted a LOT less money.

I agree completley. I'm actually stretching to think of corners who have played better than Springs over the past two seasons. Now obviously, I dont watch anyone else like I do the skins, but Springs has been just about as close to a shutdown corner as you get.

Anyway you slice it, both teams ended up better for the trade. We both ended up with good corners and good running backs when it was all said and done. Altho I think our RB is a little bit better and RIGHT NOW our corner is a little bit better. Bailey will be in the league longer though.

11-18-2005, 12:31 PM	#16
dblanch66 The Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 58 Posts: 1,176	Re: "The Trade!" If, if, if... If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

11-18-2005, 02:21 PM	#18
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: "The Trade!" If we had Betts playing the role of Portis, aka starting back, then who would play Betts' current role? I don't think we should underestimate or undervalue the importance of having not one but two backs who could start for many, if not all, teams. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

11-18-2005, 03:16 PM	#19
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	Re: "The Trade!" Sultan McCullough! Duh. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

11-18-2005, 03:38 PM	#20
Riggo44 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Clemente CA Age: 51 Posts: 2,390	Re: "The Trade!" I still like the trade. If we didn't trade Champ. We wouldn't get those "Dallor Bill ,4 qtrs,10 dimes,20 nickels" press conferences ever thurs. Who could stand that? __________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin

11-18-2005, 07:46 PM	#21
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Re: "The Trade!" To be honest, I think Shawn Springs is a better corner than Bailey. Springs virtually shut down T.O. twice last year. Bailey was getting torched by Amani Toomer, Joey Galloway, Antonio Bryant, and just about everyone else. Plus, Springs has a better attitude and wanted a LOT less money. While I would have preferred a Portis-Bailey straight-up trade, I think it was a good move.

11-19-2005, 08:14 PM	#24
Master4Caster Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: DC area Posts: 374	Re: "The Trade!" I like the thread. A couple of points: The Skins were not going to keep Bailey. Both, Bailey's unhappiness with the team environment and the salary cap meant we were going to lose him. The question was do we release him and get nothing, or go for the best available option? I don't buy that Edgerrin James or Shawn Alexander were available. Yes, they were at the end of their contracts, but I do not believe their teams had any intention of losing them. Most of that chatter about them being available "cheap" was posturing. Clinton Portis was not happy in Denver. Match that with Mike Shanahan's view of RBs as interchangeable, along with the Bronco's crying need for a corner who could single-cover and you have the ingredients for a deal. Portis was the best available rusher at the time. This was a good deal for both sides. (actually Denver's draft choice loses value as the Redskins' record improves) Gibbs does not use CP the way Denver did. He uses him like Riggo or Earnest Byner -- power thru the line. Edgerrin James excells at that, but he was not really available. Portis excells at cut backs and bouncing outside the line. He added weight, worked the offseason, came to camp and blocks effectively - everything the coaches ask of him. The running game issue is not with Portis. I suspect Shaun Alexander would get the same result if used the same way. And why did we need a back in the first #@^% place? Because a certain "inexpercienced" owner hired a genius college coach who had no skill evaluating NFL talent and whose offensive scheme had no use for a power rusher. How does Portis compare to Trung Canidate? That's the comparison to make. What could Gibbs have done with Stephen Davis? Even though he's aging, if Davis were on the roster, I think Gibbs uses the Bailey trade to fill another hole. __________________ Master4Caster http://runningredskins.blogspot.com http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins

11-19-2005, 08:37 PM	#25
LongTimeSkinsFan Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: LaVale MD Age: 62 Posts: 515	Re: "The Trade!" I'll just weigh in briefly on this discussion because it's been hashed and rehashed so much. Just like to make a few points here... 1. I don't think Champ is the savior Shanahan thought he would be. He is a good corner and good at forcing the run, but I don't consider him a 'shut-down' corner. He needs help over top for coverage too often and gets toasted on a regular basis. 2. Portis was a great cutback runner in Denver and as witnessed against the Bucs, he's still got the cutback quickness and speed. I think Portis has improved as a football player since being part of the Gibbs system because it has demanded him to be more to the team. He's responded to the challenge and is a much better blocker and stronger runner as a result. __________________ ...skins fan since 72 and still breathin'!

11-20-2005, 06:06 AM	#26
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: "The Trade!" last year portis couldn't see blocks and ended up running into his linemen a lot, this year he's been much better waiting the two tenths of a second or whatever it is to get better blocking... we still have trouble up the gut when everyone knows we're running, but portis isn't a 260 bowling ball, so i'm not sure we can expect that of him as well as great outside speed...

11-20-2005, 10:40 AM	#27
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: "The Trade!" Talk about a topic that just won't die. Why don't we just take a vote and be done with it once and for all?

"The Trade!"

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