Jesus Camp:

[SmootSmack]

You're calling a lot of b.s tonight aren't you Saden?

Is this going to become like the "F..." threads? Now we'll have the "I Call B.S. On..."

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by saden1

Look, as I have said before there may very well be an all powerful entity that created us, the universe, and everything else we don't know about. Having said that I call b.s. on the Bible, the Quran, and the Torah (all 3 are based on each other). I call b.s. on Jesus, Mohamed, and Moses. I call b.s. on all the the far fetched stories. I call b.s. on the contradictions, lack of civility and humanism. I call b.s. on the fact that all of these holy men were born and raised in the middle east. Where are the Chinese born prophets? How about the fact that so many prophet are related? It feels like a family business.

This is what I have come to the conclusion of after much thought and struggle. It's not popular with believers but that's alright.

p.s. I want to know who in here has no fear of hell? Fear of hell and the desire to go to heaven are integral part of most religion. After all you can't chill with Jesus/God and drink Pina Colada if you aren't in heaven.

p.p.s. We may disagree but I got nothing but love for you lot.

-Peace

I am probably going to regret this, but I feel compelled to ask; what contradictions?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I am probably going to regret this, but I feel compelled to ask; what contradictions?

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're calling a lot of b.s tonight aren't you Saden?

Is this going to become like the "F..." threads? Now we'll have the "I Call B.S. On..."

I don't know, I call it how I see it?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by saden1

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

I am not going to argue this point with you, but here is some food for thought. If you take bits and pieces of any manuscript and pull them out of context you will have a much different picture than the one that is actually being presented in the writing. In all of those references you need to read the whole passage in order to understand what is actually being said. The only way to understand the Bible in it's entirety is to read the whole thing yourself. I am confident that if you were to read it all for yourself, you would have a much different point of view. I am not saying that you should, and I am not going to stop talking to you if you don't.

I do not believe in trying force what I believe to be true down other peoples throat, nor do I wish to debate with you on this topic. I am just trying to provide a little bit of what I believe to be insight on the matter. Have a nice evening.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I am not going to argue this point with you, but here is some food for thought. If you take bits and pieces of any manuscript and pull them out of context you will have a much different picture than the one that is actually being presented in the writing. In all of those references you need to read the whole passage in order to understand what is actually being said. The only way to understand the Bible in it's entirety is to read the whole thing yourself. I am confident that if you were to read it all for yourself, you would have a much different point of view. I am not saying that you should, and I am not going to stop talking to you if you don't.

I whole heartily agree that context matters most and believe me I have read a lot of passages in that list. I even wondered if these inconsistency are due to poor translation.

Originally Posted by angryssg

I do not believe in trying force what I believe to be true down other peoples throat, nor do I wish to debate with you on this topic. I am just trying to provide a little bit of what I believe to be insight on the matter. Have a nice evening.

I don't think we are debating here as that would mean there are winners and losers. I think this discussion. An exchange of ideas and thoughts, an honest dialog.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by saden1

I whole heartily agree that context matters most and believe me I have read a lot of passages in that list. I even wondered if these inconsistency are due to poor translation.



I don't think we are debating here as that would mean there are winners and losers. I think this discussion. An exchange of ideas and thoughts, an honest dialog.

In response to the poor translation this is what I have to say. For someone who does serious Biblical research, there is a serious amount of cross referencing to different versions of the Bible that is necessary, unless you speak Hebrew. The Hebrew language has remained unchanged throughout time. Since I and others like me do not speak Hebrew, we used to do in depth Bible study that requires alot of cross reference of the different books and different versions of the Bible. On top of that there is group discussion and Prayer that has to go into it. IMO you only get out of it what you put into it. Another interesting thing is that while God may have made us all equal, we all have different talents, gifts and personalities. What I get out of a Bible study may be different from what another person would get out of it. I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to each of us in different way to cater to our difference in personality. That is my belief.

Yes, I know that we are not debating and it is an honest dialog. I was just making sure that we keep it that way. My belief is that you win people for God through love and prayer. Christians should know that they are not supposed to debate with non believers. But, sometimes they cannot help it and do it anyway. I am guilty of it myself, but it has been a while. That is why I usually try to stay away from threads such as this.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Look, as I have said before there may very well be an all powerful entity that created us, the universe, and everything else we don't know about.

Accepting then, that there MAY be such an entity - are you curious as to discovering the nature of such an entity? Would you accept that others were and devoted time and study to try and learn about it? That in learning about it, they would then seek to impart that knowledge onto others? Hmmmm.... I wonder how scholars and other followers might attempt to pass that wisdom on?

Originally Posted by saden1

Having said that I call b.s. on the Bible, the Quran, and the Torah (all 3 are based on each other). I call b.s. on Jesus, Mohamed, and Moses. I call b.s. on all the the far fetched stories. I call b.s. on the contradictions, lack of civility and humanism.

Oh look, all the manners in which knowledgable and/or wise people would try to impart, guide or otherwise teach those who come aftter them. Other than "lack of civility and humanism", and as I have said before, each of the things and people you call b.s. on were trying to pass on knowledge of the infinite.

I'm sorry - I can't get pass your inability to grasp the concept that "contradictions" are a necessary part of describing infinite concepts. Those "far-fetched" stories in most cases are poetry and symbolism. If you want to see what, exactly, the Christian faith believes - read the Nicene Creed. That was the "set of beliefs" agreed upon by all those who called themselves Christians when the Christian church spoke with one unified voice (and guess what - it was created through debate, political interference, and contention by a bunch of humans).

As for the quoted "contradictions" - please - go to take a course on comparitive religious literature or even a secular course on Bible study. The errors, ommissions, and assumptions in that list is so f***ing long it would take, well, a semester or two to straighten out.

Originally Posted by saden1

I call b.s. on the fact that all of these holy men were born and raised in the middle east. Where are the Chinese born prophets? How about the fact that so many prophet are related? It feels like a family business.

I think followers of Buddha would disagree. "Chinese prophets"? - probably many in the various versions of Zen Buddhism and China. If you're talking limiting yourself to prophets from Judaic and Christian tradition, well, that's more of a history lesson than a theology lesson.

Originally Posted by saden1

This is what I have come to the conclusion of after much thought and struggle. It's not popular with believers but that's alright. This is about me what I believe.

Sounds like a leap of faith to me.

Originally Posted by saden1

p.s. I want to know who in here has no fear of hell? Fear of hell and the desire to go to heaven are integral part of most religion. After all you can't chill with Jesus/God and drink Pina Colada if you aren't in heaven.

I have no "fear" of hell in the traditional fire and brimstone imagery. I fear that through my failure to fully live and be one with God during my lifetime that I will be unable to experience that oneness after death. It is not, however, this fear that drove me to God. Instead, as I learned more, I realized, as I said somewhere earlier, that I wanted to be part of the rhythym and beauty of the infinite. The fact that "hell" exists (and in my mind is more a state of existence than a place) was more a realization I came to then a motivational force in my case.

Originally Posted by saden1

p.p.s. We may disagree but I got nothing but love for you lot.

-Peace

Back atcha.

Peace be with you.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by angryssg

IMO you only get out of it what you put into it. Another interesting thing is that while God may have made us all equal, we all have different talents, gifts and personalities. What I get out of a Bible study may be different from what another person would get out of it. I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to each of us in different way to cater to our difference in personality.

Well said.

And so much more concisely than me. Bastard.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

SBF, what would you say about all of the bible verses and other gospels that were omitted by Constantine and the Council of Nicaea? You understand that there was a bit of 'picking and choosing' with God's Word by human beings, right?

Utter nonesense, the fact is people like to say that man kind is responsible for the bible not God, the fact is holy men of old spoke as the holy spirit moved them. Not only has God written the bible he has also protected it, the King James bible is the closest thing we have in the english translation to the original script, and all this can, and has been tested throughout the centuries, the bible has stood the test of time. Now there are many spin offs of the original context but they all can be proven through comparison on authenticity. As seen when they discovered some of the dead seas scrolls which where almost identical to the translation we have today.

Has man kind done everything they can to change God's word to suit thier Sin's? Yes! But they can be easily checked and refuited with the Greek and Hebrew text's which exept for a few minor errors in translation which most people who truly study the bible are aware of it is right on the money with century old text's.

Rest assured God is fully capable of protecting his word against mankind, now if mankind wants to run to a different truth other than the bible or take measures to distorte the bible that's thier perogative, but they also have to answer for that as well.


Revelation 22-"18": For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

"19": And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by offiss

Not only has God written the bible he has also protected it, the King James bible is the closest thing we have in the english translation to the original script, and all this can, and has been tested throughout the centuries, the bible has stood the test of time. Now there are many spin offs of the original context but they all can be proven through comparison on authenticity. As seen when they discovered some of the dead seas scrolls which where almost identical to the translation we have today.

Not to be picky here, but I believe the New American Standard Bible is the most literal english translation. It's difficult to read though. It doesn't flow very well. I personally enjoy reading The Message Bible or the New Living Translation.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

I have no problem saying I am 100% right about believing in Jesus and the Holy Bible. There is no gray area and other way to Heaven but by Jesus. God provided us with His Word and that is the Holy Bible. If you or anyone believes different I believe you and they would be 100% wrong.

Jesus Himself said in John 14:6


You may not believe and clearly many folks don't believe but the evidence I've seen in my small life trumps people opinions.

I'm not wrong to say I am 100% right. I'm a faithful and humble follower of Jesus the Christ.

I never argue about my religion or try to beat people in the head with Jesus. Never works and Jesus gets bruised. I just believe and share my faith and tesitmony.

Like I said above those folks are not teaching what is taught in the Bible.

peace and prayers guys!
mike
<><

You are 100% ACCURATE. Well put.