King predicts Haynesworth to Redskins

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

Amen, brother. Hearing people say "no way" makes me want to jam a pencil in my eye. This guy is one of the most dominant players in the league. People argue that we have the 4th ranked defense without him. SO WHAT! The Steelers had the #1 D and won the F*cking Superbowl! Uhh..how 'bout the year before that? The Giants won because of Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora and Micheal Strahan. Jesus Christ, I am tired of casual football fans that only want to acquire college kids who have never played a down in the NFL. I don't care if you have the 1st overall pick....he's not guaranteed to do Sh*t. Skins fans are largely paranoid and myopic because of some bad deals that happened a decade ago. A dominant DT can improve your entire D-you don't need elite corners that have to cover all day if your D line is constantly in the face of the QB. This would be worth a lot of $$ to me.

instead of answering one of 3 or 4 issues and calling anyone that doesn't agree with you an idiot, why not try to be a least a little bit more constructive, instead of beating up strawmen. If defense wins championships, what happened to the titans? or the ravens post dilfer? It's hard to win without a good defense, but there's a bit more to it than that, or else new england and indy wouldn't waste so much money on a quarterback.

is he going to help us win a superbowl in 2009? is danny really going to give him six years and 100mill? can we be competitive that way? no concerns about giving that much money to a guy that has character concerns and the titans and his ex-defensive coordinator don't seem super-eager to go after?

I think he'd be a good addition myself, but I don't think AH by himself is going to push us from average to amazing, and his contract and the way the skins work the cap doesn't really seem to work logically... I mean, if we hit on 6 or 7 draft picks and cheap FAs (to replace the guys we'd dump and the weak spots on the roster), but i don't really see it happening.

[DirtyLandry]

[quote=That Guy;529291]

instead of answering one of 3 or 4 issues and calling anyone that doesn't agree with you an idiot, why not try to be a least a little bit more constructive, instead of beating up strawmen.

I never suggested that the skins should address only one of their issues, and I never called anyone an idiot.

If defense wins championships, what happened to the titans? or the ravens post dilfer? It's hard to win without a good defense, but there's a bit more to it than that, or else new england and indy wouldn't waste so much money on a quarterback.

At what point did I say offense is irrelevant? I only made a completely logical argument as to why elite defensive linemen are important and showed exactly why with the last two superbowl winners.

is he going to help us win a superbowl in 2009? is danny really going to give him six years and 100mill? can we be competitive that way? no concerns about giving that much money to a guy that has character concerns and the titans and his ex-defensive coordinator don't seem super-eager to go after?

My initial response was obviously that of a frustrated one. I am tired of pseudo-fans regurgitating and repeating what the talking heads say. This is why it's a copy-cat league, most people can't think for themselves. The "popular" thing to say about Randy Moss prior to going to the Pats was that he had character issues. No he didn't and neither does Haynesworth.

I think he'd be a good addition myself, but I don't think AH by himself is going to push us from average to amazing, and his contract and the way the skins work the cap doesn't really seem to work logically... I mean, if we hit on 6 or 7 draft picks and cheap FAs (to replace the guys we'd dump and the weak spots on the roster), but i don't really see it happening.

If there is no cap next year, then why worry about a players salary? Also, I noted in my post that an elite, blue chip DT can improve an entire Defense, never did I propose that this player alone would solve all of our woes. You probably should have read my post in it's entirety. If we hit on 6 or 7 draft picks? Dude, we have only four this year and this FO has shown that it doesn't draft well, and don't give me the Horton argument. For the money, Haynesworth is the single best option for helping an entire organization.

[That Guy]

I hate quote wars, it's a waste of time, but obviously we're talking past each other. Hopefully this helps articulate what didn't get through the first time.

The last point is the important one.

Originally Posted by DirtyLandry

I never suggested that the skins should address only one of their issues, and I never called anyone an idiot.

so am i paranoid, myopic, or just a casual fan? and this doesn't serve to devalue opinions that don't match your own? cause that's the way it reads.

My initial response was obviously that of a frustrated one. I am tired of pseudo-fans regurgitating and repeating what the talking heads say. This is why it's a copy-cat league, most people can't think for themselves. The "popular" thing to say about Randy Moss prior to going to the Pats was that he had character issues. No he didn't and neither does Haynesworth.

I didn't... I'm trying to look up the post now, but I believe I said it was the steal of the draft or of the year and that he absolutely DID NOT have character issues. It's just that football is just a job to him, and if he could he'd spend his time smoking weed and fishing on his boat. I mean, he lives in a retirement community and his neighbors have never had a complaint. and the pats got a crazy deal on his salary too. so I'm not sure where that was "popular" to say, but i really don't remember that here.

You probably should have read my post in it's entirety. If we hit on 6 or 7 draft picks?

you should probably pay more attention when reading mine, i said draft picks AND cheap FAs to replace lost talent... cheap FAs don't always work out so well either.

I assure you I know how many draft picks we have, and I'm also well aware that we don't draft all that well.

At what point did I say offense is irrelevant? I only made a completely logical argument as to why elite defensive linemen are important and showed exactly why with the last two superbowl winners.

If there is no cap next year, then why worry about a players salary? Also, I noted in my post that an elite, blue chip DT can improve an entire Defense, never did I propose that this player alone would solve all of our woes.

well, if we're barely under the cap, and we have to cut players to get him in here (30% rule if we're going to assume no new CBA, which i think is a HUGE assumption until it's actually announced as such, despite local objections). that would completely rule out helping the offense and cutting players without getting adequate replacements.

30mill sb, 96mill/6year deal (5 year proration of SB and 30% rule in effect)

Year    2009    2010    2011    2012    2013    2014
SB        6        6       6       6       6       0
Salary   5.2     6.8     8.8    11.4    14.8    19.3

that means 11mill to get him in the door at asking price. If that's the plan, where does Hall's contract come in to play? why would we be talking with chris canty? we probably would have to ditch any notion of doing much to improve the OL too. With daniels, griffin, springs, taylor, and rabach gone you have ~22mill to work with (and marcus's money for the rookie pool) including emergencies, replacements, our current RFA/UFAs, outside FAs, etc.

so, let's keep rabach, since there's no cheap alternative and assume haynesworth is signed. ~22 - 2.4 - 11.2 = 8.4. if you want to sign hall too with the 30% rule, and he wants 15mill sb/5years, that's another 6mill gone, and your offseason is already done. you'll probably lose evans or daniels, canty is out, and you've still got a crap OL, no added depth, a huge hole at OLB, and no money to sign offensive help like a bobby engram, a kicker, or a punter.

Not to mention you probably can't get kendall, fabini, montgomery and golston all back at vet min either... AND you need to count 460k for each or those cuts above for their vet min replacements, bringing that 2.4mill down to under 1mill. So, despite local objections, I like Haynesworth a lot, BUT NOT at that price.

That's why I asked if he was the missing piece, because, with our structure as is, that'd be our offseason. If you're talking about getting him, watching a CBA get nuked and having him for the uncapped years, that's a HUGE gamble, but at least you're cutting players that weren't staying here long anyways. It'd be a rough year with less than 0 depth though in 2009.


if I screwed something up, let me know, but I'm pretty sure the uncapped money structure is even worse than the capped version (for 2009) where you just assume he'll get lazy or hurt.