Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Angry

OK let's start with a definition of Tangible evidencs. "Evidence that can be supported by numbers" otherwise known as "Tangible Data" (my paraphrase). You started off well by using the teams 9-7 record the year before he took over and then provided his 9-7 record the next year. You then did state that he made the playoffs. Here is all of the tangible evidence that you left out.

Mangini - 9-7 - 3rd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 9-7 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 11-5 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 8-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 6-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed playoffs (out of contention week 16)

Ryan is 34-28 (.548) in the regular season and 4-2 in the post season (.667)

He has made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons


Let's put that into a comparison

Coughlin w Giants 82-60 (.577) in the regular season and 8-3 in the post season (.727)

He has made the playoffs 5 out of 9 seasons.

The numbers are comparable. Rex may not have Coughlin's 2 Superbowl's but he has very similar numbers.

The intangibles as you stated would be the bad personnel decisions and the lack of maturity in the Lockerroom etc.

You state that he has shown lack of leadership in the locker room. That's debatable. Some coaches want the locker room to run wild. It doesn't mean that he is not in charge, he want's them a little out of control. Examples include Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami and the Oakland Raiders with Al Davis.

You said that he doesn't evaluate talent well at all. Well, I will not agree or disagree with this one. I will say that the last time I checked however, each NFL team has it's own scouts, talent evaluators, and GM. It's their job to evaluate talent. The HC just chips in, but it is not ultimately his job.

You say that they are leaderless, I would say that offensively you would be correct; Mark Sanchez is not a good leader. On defense they have plently of leadership and they play pretty good. That's not a lack of leadership from coaching it's a lack of leadership from the player. You cannot make someone be a leader. Trust me.

You state that he inherited a good team. Brett Favre couldn't make that offense good. He led the Vikings to the playoffs the very next season.

I think that if you give Rex a decent and mature QB, then the Jets can be a force in the NFL.

Thats completely bAss ackwards. They did such a good job Rex's first two years because they had a butt load of talent. A top 5 defense. A great running game. Competent wide receivers. All Sanchez had to do was game manage, make a few throws and the run game and the defense won the games. Typical AFC North style football.

But Rex and their GM are obviously horrible at finding talent and managing a roster. They have done so poorly not because Sanchez has gotten worse, but because the team around him has gotten worse. Sanchez is Alex Smith to a tee. He can manage the game for you, make some throws, but you have to put a great team around them to get deep into the playoffs. They aren't going to put the team on their backs and win games for you like the Brady's and the Mannings' do.

Look at their roster:
Chaz Schilens
Jeremy Kerley
Braylon Edwards
Konrad Reuland
Jeff Cumberland
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman

Sanchez has no one. Instead of filling these needs they don't get any help for the WR corps, sign TIM TEBOW who they won't even start and barely play, the defense signed high priced, aging players who are not performing to their contracts. It's a cut and dry Vinny Cerrato team.

Your argument is not valid because you completely ignore the main issue with the team. Personnel. Every team is different as far as how involved the head coach is with personnel decisions, but they have some input. Most of it goes on the GM, but he needs to go too. Rex needs to go because his rah rah style only works when you have talent and are winning. When you don't have the talent and are losing you get malcontents in the locker room who start outing each other anonymously and making for a bad team environment because you have assembled a team of high paid free agents, not a cohesive team.

Reference: See Cerrato, Vinny and Redskins, The Washington 1999-2010

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Thats completely bAss ackwards. They did such a good job Rex's first two years because they had a butt load of talent. A top 5 defense. A great running game. Competent wide receivers. All Sanchez had to do was game manage, make a few throws and the run game and the defense won the games. Typical AFC North style football.

But Rex and their GM are obviously horrible at finding talent and managing a roster. They have done so poorly not because Sanchez has gotten worse, but because the team around him has gotten worse. Sanchez is Alex Smith to a tee. He can manage the game for you, make some throws, but you have to put a great team around them to get deep into the playoffs. They aren't going to put the team on their backs and win games for you like the Brady's and the Mannings' do.

Look at their roster:
Chaz Schilens
Jeremy Kerley
Braylon Edwards
Konrad Reuland
Jeff Cumberland
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman

Sanchez has no one. Instead of filling these needs they don't get any help for the WR corps, sign TIM TEBOW who they won't even start and barely play, the defense signed high priced, aging players who are not performing to their contracts. It's a cut and dry Vinny Cerrato team.

Your argument is not valid because you completely ignore the main issue with the team. Personnel. Every team is different as far as how involved the head coach is with personnel decisions, but they have some input. Most of it goes on the GM, but he needs to go too. Rex needs to go because his rah rah style only works when you have talent and are winning. When you don't have the talent and are losing you get malcontents in the locker room who start outing each other anonymously and making for a bad team environment because you have assembled a team of high paid free agents, not a cohesive team.

Reference: See Cerrato, Vinny and Redskins, The Washington 1999-2010

Nowhere have I ignored the personnel issue. I am stating that it does not fall on the coach. You referenced Cerato, Vinny and the Redskins. Even you did not state Gibbs, Zorn or any plethora of coaches during that term. It is not a coaching problem. He is working with what he has been given. You only mentioned the backs and recievers that are not injured. Did Rex go all Tanya Harding on his starters?

Rex Ryan has a winning record after 4 season and has been to the AFC Championship game twice. His numbers do not warrant a coaching change for at least another season. I agree that there are personnel issues and that his team seems to be on the decline, but I believe that he can turn it around with an equally talented, but more mature QB.

The problem is the GM and the QB, not Rex. I am at an impasse and will not respond on this subject any further.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Angry

Nowhere have I ignored the personnel issue. I am stating that it does not fall on the coach. You referenced Cerato, Vinny and the Redskins. Even you did not state Gibbs, Zorn or any plethora of coaches during that term. It is not a coaching problem. He is working with what he has been given. You only mentioned the backs and recievers that are not injured. Did Rex go all Tanya Harding on his starters?

Rex Ryan has a winning record after 4 season and has been to the AFC Championship game twice. His numbers do not warrant a coaching change for at least another season. I agree that there are personnel issues and that his team seems to be on the decline, but I believe that he can turn it around with an equally talented, but more mature QB.

The problem is the GM and the QB, not Rex. I am at an impasse and will not respond on this subject any further.

But I will. Much of the problem is the GM. Rex did great with his coaching style at the beginning. But like I said, reckless only works if you are winning. When you start to lose those "loose cannons" cause locker room issues. Rex even was quoted as saying he didn't have a great feel for his own locker room. You can't tell me that his approach has been effective the last two years. His three ring quarterback circus has been a joke.

Tebow been active all year.
McElroy been inactive.
Sanchez plays bad. (again, and again, and…)
Bench Sanchez.
Tebow inactive.
McElroy plays from third string.
Sanchez back in next game.
Gets benched again.
Skip over Tebow.
McElroy starts.
Tebow wants to be cut or traded.
Sanchez trade rumors swirl, but his contract will probably keep him there next year.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

But I will. Much of the problem is the GM. Rex did great with his coaching style at the beginning. But like I said, reckless only works if you are winning. When you start to lose those "loose cannons" cause locker room issues. Rex even was quoted as saying he didn't have a great feel for his own locker room. You can't tell me that his approach has been effective the last two years. His three ring quarterback circus has been a joke.

Tebow been active all year.
McElroy been inactive.
Sanchez plays bad. (again, and again, and…)
Bench Sanchez.
Tebow inactive.
McElroy plays from third string.
Sanchez back in next game.
Gets benched again.
Skip over Tebow.
McElroy starts.
Tebow wants to be cut or traded.
Sanchez trade rumors swirl, but his contract will probably keep him there next year.

Dude, who are you trying to convince, me or yourself? I am not budging. Right now it seems as if the both of us are only responding in order to get the last word in. Truth be told; I don't care. It's the stinking Jets! You are this close to being the first on my ignor list. Unless your next response is "I agree to disagree" then you're there. I will allow you to get the last word, but please just agree to disagree and move on. This is admittedly probably one of this silliest arguments I have been in on this board. I frankly am ashamed of myself for letting it go this far. For the love of all that is going right for the Skins this season just let it go.

You make some valid points, but they are not enough for me to say "fire Rex!". Got it?