Who are the Coach Killers?

[KI Skins Fan]

I think we all know the players I'm talking about: Starting QB's of whom much was expected but who have only done enough to keep their starting jobs without making a difference for their teams. Ultimately, these guys are losers but they make their teams' fans miserable first.

The Coach Killers:

1. Mark Sanchez. OMG! How bad can this situation possibly be? Remember when we tried to move up to get him? Whew!

2. Matt Cassell. What an incredible bust! This guy practically ruined KC on his own.

3. Carson Palmer. He quit on his teammates in Cinn and now he is absolutely terrible in Oak.

4. Ryan Fitzpatrick. The very definition of mediocrity. Why in the world did Buffalo extend his contract?

5. Kevin Kolb. Huge mistake by Az.

Honorable Mention:

1. Jason Campbell (since he was the starter here for years). Isn't it about time to give him the title of "Coach Killer"?

2. Mike Holmgren. He's not a QB but the poor QB's he gave his coaches in Cleveland and his failure to make the trade to get RGIII has earned him mention on this list.

Trending toward Coach Killer status:

1. Michael Vick. Does any QB turn the ball over in worst places or worst times than Vick?

2. Phillip Rivers. What has he done to help Norv Turner keep his job?

3. Tony Romo. He is just as likely to win the game for the opposing team as he is for his own. He is the master of the bad interception. The worst part for Cowboys fans is that he tortures them by making one outstanding play after another while ultimately losing the game.

4. Jay Cutler. Up and down. Hurt a lot. Volatile personality. He is a great talent but can he be the leader his team needs?

5. Josh Freeman. The talent is there but he just doesn't seem to have the killer instinct. Frankly, he seems a bit blah to me.

[skinsguy]

I agree with your first five. Your last five, not so much. Maybe Vick. Phillip Rivers suffers more from being coached by Norv Turner than the other way around in my opinion. He's still a great talent that I feel is among the best in the league. Chicago is an elite team when Cutler is playing, and Josh Freeman is still young and developing - plus the Bucs are 6-5 - way too early to call him a coach killer.

As far as Jason Campbell, I guess you could call him a coach killer, although you might want to consider the prior success of the coaches, other than Joe Gibbs, that has picked him up as a starter.

[Ruhskins]

I think Sanchez, Rivers, and J. Campbell were helped by terrible GMs (Tannenbaum, AJ Smith, and Vinny).

[MTK]

Vick is already at coach killer status if you ask me. He's the first name that came to mind.

I wouldn't put Rivers in the conversation. The talent around him has really dropped off the last couple years.

[firstdown]

I guess you could call Vick this yr a coach killer but I remember last yr him kicking our ass. The good news is Reid will probably be leaving our division after this year.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Vick is already at coach killer status if you ask me. He's the first name that came to mind.

I wouldn't put Rivers in the conversation. The talent around him has really dropped off the last couple years.

I can understand why you say that about Vick. There is so much else wrong with the Eagles that I'm not yet ready to say he's a Coach Killer. I'm getting closer each time I see him play.

I might have been a bit tough on Rivers. Especially since the GM has wrecked that team, IMO.

[scowan]

The Eagles will probably go into full overhaul mode in the offseason. They look a lot like the Redskins did in the past. Pick up great free agents, who do not perform for you once you get them.

[Monkeydad]

I wouldn't necessarily put Campbell in that group. He had no offensive line and most of his games were played under Jim Zorn. No one expected much success.


I think a coach killer should be someone where expectations are sky high, like Sanchez, Kolb, Romo and Rivers. Rivers has put up great stats at times, but that team will never win with the combination of him and Norv and may not until they're both gone.

I'll add in:

*Going out on a limb here. I'm going to predict that Cam Newton will be in this category by the end of his career. Who has had more hype and actually lived up to it in the first year (aside from RGIII who will be a legend)? We've seen a huge regression in his second season despite his roasting of the worthless Eagles D last night. What will separate him from Griffin is Newton's massive ego and "me first" attitude. He celebrates himself when the team is losing. He looks to blame anyone else after losses (see press conferences). The moment he said "I want to be an entertainer, not just a QB", I knew he wouldn't reach his potential on the field. I can't stand his "Superman" antics or his attitude. Those will be his downfall. He acts more like a diva WR than a leader on the field, which is what a QB needs to be. When the team is winning, it's all smiles and dancing. When the team loses, which they will continue to in the next few years, he's going to rub everyone the wrong way with his behavior, including coaches and teammates. He'll divide that locker room and get Rivera fired before his tenure there is up. He might be a fantasy football star, but he's not going to be a winner in the NFL.


*Instead of a name, I'll name a position as a QB Killer. The Cleveland Browns QB. Doesn't matter what name is on the jersey...Anderson, Quinn, McCoy, Weeden. No amount of money or high 1st round picks seem to bring success to that position for that team. They must be cursed.

Until RGIII, we were stuck in a similar situation. That's why I don't blame JC personally. He did the best he could in a hopeless position.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Vick is already at coach killer status if you ask me. He's the first name that came to mind.

I wouldn't put Rivers in the conversation. The talent around him has really dropped off the last couple years.

So has Rivers' play.

That game where he basically played on one leg was gutsy and impressive, but he's had more mistakes from his hot head than hero performances.

I do agree though, his GM and basically entire team is a mess, but a Pro Bowl QB should be able to hide a lot. It hasn't with Rivers. Look at his last couple of seasons...20 INTs last year and already 14 this year. He's starting to fall apart from where he used to be. He's still an accurate passer, but he's starting to look just like Jay Cutler, a boom or bust guy who will make mistakes in tough situations...and won't act like a man about it.

[SmootSmack]

I don't get this list. If you're a QB on a team who may be fired you're a coach killer?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

So has Rivers' play.

That game where he basically played on one leg was gutsy and impressive, but he's had more mistakes from his hot head than hero performances.

I do agree though, his GM and basically entire team is a mess, but a Pro Bowl QB should be able to hide a lot. It hasn't with Rivers. Look at his last couple of seasons...20 INTs last year and already 14 this year. He's starting to fall apart from where he used to be. He's still an accurate passer, but he's starting to look just like Jay Cutler, a boom or bust guy who will make mistakes in tough situations...and won't act like a man about it.

I'd chalk up his INTs to him trying to do too much with the limited talent around him.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

So has Rivers' play.

That game where he basically played on one leg was gutsy and impressive, but he's had more mistakes from his hot head than hero performances.

I do agree though, his GM and basically entire team is a mess, but a Pro Bowl QB should be able to hide a lot. It hasn't with Rivers. Look at his last couple of seasons...20 INTs last year and already 14 this year. He's starting to fall apart from where he used to be. He's still an accurate passer, but he's starting to look just like Jay Cutler, a boom or bust guy who will make mistakes in tough situations...and won't act like a man about it.

Losing LT was big. Sproles hurt big time, Vincent Jackson has been a monster(his stats this year have been jaw dropping)...Rivers been hurt by lose of talent. Still dont know why they let Sproles walk.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't get this list. If you're a QB on a team who may be fired you're a coach killer?

I think I see what the OP's saying, talking about bad personnel decisions leading to coaches getting fired, and I agree with you, SS. Cause and effect aren't that strongly linked here.

I thought this thread would be about players that threw the coach under the bus, and the coach ended up getting fired. But since we're talking about players not trying to get coaches fired, just thru poor performance...

Jason Campbell qualifies as a coach killer as much as the others listed. It's telling that Joe Gibbs drafted him to be our QB long term, and the two times we made the playoffs was with Campbell on the bench. Once with Todd Collins, who wouldn't start anywhere without Saunder's 700 page playbook present. (But that '07 run was great, just overshadowed by ST21's murder.)

Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn's careers were absolutely tied to finally developing Campbell into a star QB, dumping Saunders and benching Collins after Gibbs left. And Shanahan wasted little time trading Campbell afterwards.

Carson Palmer to Oakland was a coach killer move for Oakland. The Sanchez/Tebow moves are coach killers. I could be wrong, but I think NOT getting RG3 helped kill Holgrem as GM.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I think I see what the OP's saying, talking about bad personnel decisions leading to coaches getting fired, and I agree with you, SS. Cause and effect aren't that strongly linked here.

I thought this thread would be about players that threw the coach under the bus, and the coach ended up getting fired. But since we're talking about players not trying to get coaches fired, just thru poor performance...

Jason Campbell qualifies as a coach killer as much as the others listed. It's telling that Joe Gibbs drafted him to be our QB long term, and the two times we made the playoffs was with Campbell on the bench. Once with Todd Collins, who wouldn't start anywhere without Saunder's 700 page playbook present. (But that '07 run was great, just overshadowed by ST21's murder.)

Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn's careers were absolutely tied to finally developing Campbell into a star QB, dumping Saunders and benching Collins after Gibbs left. And Shanahan wasted little time trading Campbell afterwards.

Carson Palmer to Oakland was a coach killer move for Oakland. The Sanchez/Tebow moves are coach killers. I could be wrong, but I think NOT getting RG3 helped kill Holgrem as GM.

I thought the Tebow thing was more of the owners then the coach.

[MTK]

My idea of a coach killer is a guy who puts up numbers or teases you to the point where you think you can win with him, but in the end he just isn't able to get a team over the top and therefore leads to the coach who put too much faith in him getting fired.

So that said I wouldn't put JC on the coach killer list.